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The app does have E2E encryption. It's just not the default. My one wish is they would change this.

by saos 4y ago

jeroenhd 4y ago
I know, and I agree. MTProtov1 criticisms aside, the E2EE system Telegram uses is perfectly safe. It's just disabled by default, unavailable in group chats or channels, and enabling it reduces usability (i.e. you can't use multiple devices to chat if you enable E2EE). Telegram as a chat app has the best UX of any chat app out there in my opinion, so the lack of proper E2EE is simply disappointing. I don't really trust either, but I consider WhatsApp more secure than Telegram, despite Meta mining my metadata.
- saos 4y ago
  > but I consider WhatsApp more secure than Telegram, despite Meta mining my metadata Ha, I still prefer Telegram. I just use secret chats by default and enjoy the awesome UX
  - prophesi 4y ago
    Yes, Secret Chat's awesome UX of requiring both recipients to be online and the inability to use it on desktop.
    - stereoradonc 4y ago
      Try Unigram to start "secret chats" though it will not sync with other clients. Unigram works in Windows Desktop.
- tptacek 4y ago
  the E2EE system Telegram uses is perfectly safe Is it? How would you go about confirming that?]
- alaricus 4y ago
  > WhatsApp more secure than Telegram Why is that? With WhatsApp client being closed source, we simply don't know if it really is doing E2EE at all.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >we simply don't know if it really is doing E2EE at all Why don't we know? Isn't it trivial to set up a MITM test setup and snuff the traffic and analize it?
    - alaricus 4y ago
      It's trivially easy to encrypt the traffic and then send a copy of the private key to Facebook's servers. You would not be able to decrypt it, but they would.
  - hiq 4y ago
    That's not how it works: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11432661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11432661
    - alaricus 4y ago
      This makes no sense. There is nothing to prove that that WhatsApp is really using the aformentioned Signal code. It's closed source, so it could be anything inside.
      - hiq 4y ago
        The answer to your objections is literally in the comment I linked, did you read it? One keyword is RE.
        alaricus 4y ago
- karlzt 4y ago
  If your message in WhatsApp gets reported approximately 1000 employees from Facebook/Meta will be able to read your last 5 messages you made in WhatsApp. https://oneandroid.net/whatsapp-will-read-your-last-5-messages-sent-if-someone-reports-you/ https://oneandroid.net/whatsapp-will-read-your-last-5-messag...
  - hiq 4y ago
    No E2EE protects you from the receiver (the reporter in your example), it's the same if I forward the message I receive to the world.
slategruen 4y ago
What? It’s not E2EE by default? This is honestly disappointing. So most of their privacy-focused stance is just a marketing ploy? A lot of my peers now use Telegram to move away from the Facebook ecosystem and now you’re telling me they’re just as worse?

The app does have E2E encryption. It's just not the default. My one wish is they would change this.

by saos 4y ago

The app does have E2E encryption. It's just not the default. My one wish is they would change this.

I know, and I agree. MTProtov1 criticisms aside, the E2EE system Telegram uses is perfectly safe. It's just disabled by default, unavailable in group chats or channels, and enabling it reduces usability (i.e. you can't use multiple devices to chat if you enable E2EE). Telegram as a chat app has the best UX of any chat app out there in my opinion, so the lack of proper E2EE is simply disappointing. I don't really trust either, but I consider WhatsApp more secure than Telegram, despite Meta mining my metadata.

saos 4y ago
> but I consider WhatsApp more secure than Telegram, despite Meta mining my metadata Ha, I still prefer Telegram. I just use secret chats by default and enjoy the awesome UX
- prophesi 4y ago
  Yes, Secret Chat's awesome UX of requiring both recipients to be online and the inability to use it on desktop.
  - stereoradonc 4y ago
    Try Unigram to start "secret chats" though it will not sync with other clients. Unigram works in Windows Desktop.
tptacek 4y ago
the E2EE system Telegram uses is perfectly safe Is it? How would you go about confirming that?]
alaricus 4y ago
> WhatsApp more secure than Telegram Why is that? With WhatsApp client being closed source, we simply don't know if it really is doing E2EE at all.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >we simply don't know if it really is doing E2EE at all Why don't we know? Isn't it trivial to set up a MITM test setup and snuff the traffic and analize it?
  - alaricus 4y ago
    It's trivially easy to encrypt the traffic and then send a copy of the private key to Facebook's servers. You would not be able to decrypt it, but they would.
- hiq 4y ago
  That's not how it works: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11432661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11432661
  - alaricus 4y ago
    This makes no sense. There is nothing to prove that that WhatsApp is really using the aformentioned Signal code. It's closed source, so it could be anything inside.
    - hiq 4y ago
      The answer to your objections is literally in the comment I linked, did you read it? One keyword is RE.
      - alaricus 4y ago
karlzt 4y ago
If your message in WhatsApp gets reported approximately 1000 employees from Facebook/Meta will be able to read your last 5 messages you made in WhatsApp. https://oneandroid.net/whatsapp-will-read-your-last-5-messages-sent-if-someone-reports-you/ https://oneandroid.net/whatsapp-will-read-your-last-5-messag...
- hiq 4y ago
  No E2EE protects you from the receiver (the reporter in your example), it's the same if I forward the message I receive to the world.

slategruen 4y ago

What? It’s not E2EE by default? This is honestly disappointing. So most of their privacy-focused stance is just a marketing ploy? A lot of my peers now use Telegram to move away from the Facebook ecosystem and now you’re telling me they’re just as worse?