4 ms·

I'm pretty sure Germany while having a reputation for being very privacy focus makes more data requests per captia than any goverment.

guerrilla 4y ago
Why are you pretty sure about that? All I hear about is the US doing that every day that they can mandate the parties into silence.... so how would you even know.
- that_guy_iain 4y ago
  Lots of companies openly state how many requests they get from each country. I think I saw a report where someone tallied all the requests from all the major sites that report on the requests they get and Germany was at the top. For example, https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ Germany is at 11+k while the UK which is of similar size is at 2+k
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    > Lots of companies openly state how many requests they get from each country. As I said, the US can stop you from making such disclosures and they do, which we know because some such embargoes have ended in individual cases. We have no idea how many are still in place.
    - that_guy_iain 4y ago
      The US can stop you making disclosures for very specific cases - aka the Patriot act which is a federal law. But majority of requests are done by other people. Quite simply saying "We have no idea how many are still in place" actually, we have an idea. That idea is not many. It's simply FUD to talk about the US' ability to stop disclosures when talking about who is making the most requests. Especially when the US is still pretty near the top for countries making requests.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        "Very specific cases", like the rest of their spying, right. You can believe that if you want, but I'm not remotely convinced. We consistently find that the US spies and abuses its power more than anyone imagines. By induction, unless anything profound changes, I'll bet on that trend continuing.
        that_guy_iain 4y ago
        > We consistently find that the US spies and abuses its power more than anyone imagines. Spies, not law enforcement. Spies spy. It's kinda in their job description.
        guerrilla 4y ago
        Anyone can spy. Cops spy all the time.
legalcorrection 4y ago
And in Germany, it’s literally a crime to have certain opinions and discuss them. Edit: downvote away, but this is literally true.
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  It's literally wrong. You can have any opinion you want, but yes, there are certain, very much contradicted "opinions" you can get in trouble for publicly announcing. But even that has certain limits. For example you can deny the Holocaust among a small circle of friends, and that would not be "public". And it's extremely hard to get anything of the sort prosecuted on the internet. See "tatütata.fail".
- nonstickcoating 4y ago
  This is not correct at all. You are perfectly entitled to be a fascist in your own four walls, even discuss your fascist ideals with your friends. You can not, however, advocate for fascism in public or use insignias or texts of the NSDAP for anything but educational purposes. EDIT: The comment below phrases it even better.
  - patrec 4y ago
    > This is not correct at all. A quick glance at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial suggests that you may have made up the public advocacy requirement: > (3) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in section 6 (1) of the Code of International Criminal Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine.[36][37] Of course the distinction you are trying to draw smacks of sophistry to begin with. From what I can tell, you can be anti-islamic in your own four walls and even discuss your secular ideals with your friends in Pakistan, beacon of free speech, as well[1]. [1] As long as you don't defile the name of a prophet. That seems to carry a mandatory death sentence (plus fine, to really rub it in), even if it occurs within your own walls.
robonerd 4y ago
Perhaps Germany makes more official requests because of their privacy laws, whereas in America the government simply buys people's data on the open market without having to go through official channels, get warrants, etc?
- legalcorrection 4y ago
  Under US law, it is illegal to give the government large categories of user data, even if you can legally sell that data on the open market to private parties.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    Maybe so, but do laws really count for much in this country anymore? > DHS Authorities Are Buying Moment-By-Moment Geolocation Cellphone Data To Track People > The Department of Homeland Security also argues that using the information is perfectly legal and that the agency does not need a warrant to purchase it, according to a memo obtained exclusively by BuzzFeed News. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-cell-phone-data-tracking-geolocation https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-ce... > Intelligence Analysts Use U.S. Smartphone Location Data Without Warrants, Memo Says > The disclosure comes amid growing legislative scrutiny of how the government uses commercially available location records. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/politics/dia-surveillance-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/politics/dia-surveilla...

guerrilla 4y ago

Why are you pretty sure about that? All I hear about is the US doing that every day that they can mandate the parties into silence.... so how would you even know.

that_guy_iain 4y ago
Lots of companies openly state how many requests they get from each country. I think I saw a report where someone tallied all the requests from all the major sites that report on the requests they get and Germany was at the top. For example, https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ Germany is at 11+k while the UK which is of similar size is at 2+k
- guerrilla 4y ago
  > Lots of companies openly state how many requests they get from each country. As I said, the US can stop you from making such disclosures and they do, which we know because some such embargoes have ended in individual cases. We have no idea how many are still in place.
  - that_guy_iain 4y ago
    The US can stop you making disclosures for very specific cases - aka the Patriot act which is a federal law. But majority of requests are done by other people. Quite simply saying "We have no idea how many are still in place" actually, we have an idea. That idea is not many. It's simply FUD to talk about the US' ability to stop disclosures when talking about who is making the most requests. Especially when the US is still pretty near the top for countries making requests.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      "Very specific cases", like the rest of their spying, right. You can believe that if you want, but I'm not remotely convinced. We consistently find that the US spies and abuses its power more than anyone imagines. By induction, unless anything profound changes, I'll bet on that trend continuing.
      - that_guy_iain 4y ago
        > We consistently find that the US spies and abuses its power more than anyone imagines. Spies, not law enforcement. Spies spy. It's kinda in their job description.
        guerrilla 4y ago
        Anyone can spy. Cops spy all the time.

legalcorrection 4y ago

And in Germany, it’s literally a crime to have certain opinions and discuss them. Edit: downvote away, but this is literally true.

bayesian_horse 4y ago
It's literally wrong. You can have any opinion you want, but yes, there are certain, very much contradicted "opinions" you can get in trouble for publicly announcing. But even that has certain limits. For example you can deny the Holocaust among a small circle of friends, and that would not be "public". And it's extremely hard to get anything of the sort prosecuted on the internet. See "tatütata.fail".
nonstickcoating 4y ago
This is not correct at all. You are perfectly entitled to be a fascist in your own four walls, even discuss your fascist ideals with your friends. You can not, however, advocate for fascism in public or use insignias or texts of the NSDAP for anything but educational purposes. EDIT: The comment below phrases it even better.
- patrec 4y ago
  > This is not correct at all. A quick glance at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial suggests that you may have made up the public advocacy requirement: > (3) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in section 6 (1) of the Code of International Criminal Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine.[36][37] Of course the distinction you are trying to draw smacks of sophistry to begin with. From what I can tell, you can be anti-islamic in your own four walls and even discuss your secular ideals with your friends in Pakistan, beacon of free speech, as well[1]. [1] As long as you don't defile the name of a prophet. That seems to carry a mandatory death sentence (plus fine, to really rub it in), even if it occurs within your own walls.

robonerd 4y ago

Perhaps Germany makes more official requests because of their privacy laws, whereas in America the government simply buys people's data on the open market without having to go through official channels, get warrants, etc?

legalcorrection 4y ago
Under US law, it is illegal to give the government large categories of user data, even if you can legally sell that data on the open market to private parties.
- robonerd 4y ago
  Maybe so, but do laws really count for much in this country anymore? > DHS Authorities Are Buying Moment-By-Moment Geolocation Cellphone Data To Track People > The Department of Homeland Security also argues that using the information is perfectly legal and that the agency does not need a warrant to purchase it, according to a memo obtained exclusively by BuzzFeed News. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-cell-phone-data-tracking-geolocation https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-ce... > Intelligence Analysts Use U.S. Smartphone Location Data Without Warrants, Memo Says > The disclosure comes amid growing legislative scrutiny of how the government uses commercially available location records. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/politics/dia-surveillance-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/politics/dia-surveilla...