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> And they dont have democracy. They cant french revolution on their CCP thing. Im no expert but this is mostly due to surveillance right? Dont say culture plea

• ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  I believe the Greeks had democracy in a number of their city states, but some also had war, slavery, and a fairly pervasive misogyny. There's an old saying I remember: "The best form of government is an absolute monarchy. The worst form of government is an absolute monarchy." It all depends who's on top of the heap. Democracy tends to dilute the damage done by bad actors, but also hobbles really good ones. No system is perfect.
  • throw0101a 4y ago
    > There's an old saying I remember: "The best form of government is an absolute monarchy. The worst form of government is an absolute monarchy." Constitutional monarchy seems to rank highly: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#By_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#By_country
    • axlee 4y ago
      Remember that this list is from the PoV of the anglo world. Them classifying France, Italy, Belgium or Spain as a flawed democracy while the UK would be "full" is hilarious. Strange, they're all latin countries. The Economist has been dunking on France with absurd claims for decades, for whatever reasons that is, so I am not really surprised.
• throw0101a 4y ago
  > Believe it or not, most people have never experienced democracy, and a sizeable amount do not believe that it is a superior society model. Ask them if they'd like to get rid of corruption though: I would guess that most people would like to get rid of that from where they live, and you're more likely to remove it under democratic regimes. > Some cultures will never be democratic in their current form, starting with the ones where religion is deeply intertwined with politics. Religion or tribalism/clans? You'll find places that are democratic are less likely to be tribal/clanish (which often leads to less corruption), and there's a high level of modern secularism as well. You'll also find that these traits also tend to correlate highly with (historically) Christian cultures: * https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/10/joseph-henrich-weird-people/615496/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/10/joseph-... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WEIRDest_People_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WEIRDest_People_in_the_Wor... * https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/21/dominion-making-western-mind-tom-holland-review https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/21/dominion-makin...
  • axlee 4y ago
    > Ask them if they'd like to get rid of corruption though: I would guess that most people would like to get rid of that from where they live, and you're more likely to remove it under democratic regimes. Yes. In the above poll, pretty much every culture was advocating for a "fair justice system". But what justice? You'll find that the definition of justice varies wildly between places like, say, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and Iceland. The kind of justice the people want in some places has nothing to do with democracy. What constitutes "corruption" also varies wildly. If you ask someone from Uganda what sort of corruption he refers to, you might be surprised of the answer. > Religion or tribalism/clans? You'll find places that are democratic are less likely to be tribal/clanish (which often leads to less corruption), and there's a high level of modern secularism as well. You'll also find that these traits also tend to correlate highly with (historically) Christian cultures: You are taking the problem from the wrong end. Tribalist/clanic cultures cannot easily move towards democracy, it is not democratics states that are less likely to be tribal/clanic.