4 ms·

>Grapperhaus wanted to prevent the distribution of photos of the sexual abuse of children and if someone gets arrested for a thoughtcrime or hatespeak offense,

>Grapperhaus wanted to prevent the distribution of photos of the sexual abuse of children and if someone gets arrested for a thoughtcrime or hatespeak offense, the evidence obtained from their chat logs will be inadmissible in court, right? :)

j3th9n 4y ago
Meanwhile Grapperhaus didn't want to appoint an independent team of researchers to investigate child sex abuse in connection with members of his own justice department.
- encrux 4y ago
  Sounds like a swell dude
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
of course, unless the wire tapping was authorized by a court. The system has been.in place for decades and the same procedures must be followed for every private conversation Besides: do you know someone that was arrested for a thoughtcrime in the Netherlands?
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  Yes, they still have lese-majeste laws. And it's not like they never used them, people still go to jail over insulting the king. They reformed the laws in 2018 but it's still punishable by up to one year of jail >A court in the Netherlands has sentenced a man to 30 days in jail for insulting the king on Facebook. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639? Plus, The Netherlands has quite a few restrictions on free speech in general. But I guess it depends on how you define "thought crimes"
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > to 30 days in jail for insulting the king on Facebook. That's not tough crime. You can't insult the President of Republic here in Italy too, because it represent Italy, you're insulting the institution, it's against the law. A though crime, as per Orwell - who invented the term - definition. is someone who goes against the status quo and get punished for expressing an unorthodox idea or doubting the system. You don't get a sentence usually, you simply disappear. Or get hunged in public as an example. What you just reported is a plain straight law infringement. Just like a robbery. A though crime would be being arrested for protesting against the US Supreme court and their vote to cancel abortion rights.
    - mardifoufs 4y ago
      I think that's a distinction that can make sense and I agree that the definition of the word has been a bit diluted. You obviously don't get disappeared in the NL. But I don't get your last point. If it was illegal to protest/criticize the Supreme court, and someone did, wouldn't that be straight law infringement too? I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Insulting an institution, especially that of the Crown, is a form of protest and can be a way to express an unorthodox idea or a rejection of the system. It's akin to going to jail for insulting Trump, Biden or Bush because you insulted the American presidency. To me that's just unsettling.
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_by_country#Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_by_country#Ne... the nebulous laws are in place, like in every other country that had suddenly become very concerned about "protecting the children" in recent years

j3th9n 4y ago

Meanwhile Grapperhaus didn't want to appoint an independent team of researchers to investigate child sex abuse in connection with members of his own justice department.

encrux 4y ago
Sounds like a swell dude

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

of course, unless the wire tapping was authorized by a court. The system has been.in place for decades and the same procedures must be followed for every private conversation Besides: do you know someone that was arrested for a thoughtcrime in the Netherlands?

mardifoufs 4y ago
Yes, they still have lese-majeste laws. And it's not like they never used them, people still go to jail over insulting the king. They reformed the laws in 2018 but it's still punishable by up to one year of jail >A court in the Netherlands has sentenced a man to 30 days in jail for insulting the king on Facebook. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36799639? Plus, The Netherlands has quite a few restrictions on free speech in general. But I guess it depends on how you define "thought crimes"
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > to 30 days in jail for insulting the king on Facebook. That's not tough crime. You can't insult the President of Republic here in Italy too, because it represent Italy, you're insulting the institution, it's against the law. A though crime, as per Orwell - who invented the term - definition. is someone who goes against the status quo and get punished for expressing an unorthodox idea or doubting the system. You don't get a sentence usually, you simply disappear. Or get hunged in public as an example. What you just reported is a plain straight law infringement. Just like a robbery. A though crime would be being arrested for protesting against the US Supreme court and their vote to cancel abortion rights.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    I think that's a distinction that can make sense and I agree that the definition of the word has been a bit diluted. You obviously don't get disappeared in the NL. But I don't get your last point. If it was illegal to protest/criticize the Supreme court, and someone did, wouldn't that be straight law infringement too? I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Insulting an institution, especially that of the Crown, is a form of protest and can be a way to express an unorthodox idea or a rejection of the system. It's akin to going to jail for insulting Trump, Biden or Bush because you insulted the American presidency. To me that's just unsettling.
throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_by_country#Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_by_country#Ne... the nebulous laws are in place, like in every other country that had suddenly become very concerned about "protecting the children" in recent years