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Different drugs have some pretty vastly different mental effects. Not every drug puts you into a "flow state" and there are few drugs I would compare in any way

Different drugs have some pretty vastly different mental effects. Not every drug puts you into a "flow state" and there are few drugs I would compare in any way to sports. Also a bit judgemental to call "drugs" a "vice", no? Many drugs would be pretty harmless without the harsh legal penalties and with more state-run support systems. Other drugs are pharmaceuticals that help people survive. Those are not a "vice" and are rather a critical tool for survival.

motohagiography 4y ago
Anything that can create dependency is a vice, hence the word being an analogy of a physical vice to something that takes hold of you, and while we can use it, we have to recognize it can take hold. Vices aren't sins, they're just inessential and can also be limitations. We respect that physical tools can be dangerous, and we should treat psychological ones with the same respect. Drugs aren't concretely like sport, but they can have an effect of putting someone in a more sport-like state of mind, though without the competence, skill and moderation of an athelete. If you are on a snowboard at the bottom of a good run you are likely in that moment your peak 'unbuffered' self, and the effect of that is relating to the world with the acceptance of someone who feels they are in a moral equillibrium. Drugs (recreational or psychoactive) can also provide or support that feeling of balance and equillibrium (or intensity), as that's what makes them desirable. Drugs are a tool, but when you use them, you've already accepted that you need them, whereas sport has a completely different orientation to an objective. It's "practice and get better" vs. "use a substance to manage something suboptimal." That is, drugs can be fun and useful, but they are inferior to sport in that they're the option we take when we don't have something to practice to become better at. It's ok to be in that state, but I'm just saying there are just better ones to be in.
- shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
  That definition of vice is so broad as to be useless. Literally any human activity could be a dependency economically, physically, mentally. Also, sports can easily be something "to manage something suboptimal", e.g. I'm sad because I have no friends therefore I'm going to join a soccer league. And now that I mention it, you've gone and created a dependency on soccer for your meeting new friends. People take drugs sometimes just for fun like any other activity and aren't trying to manage every tiny bit of their life min/maxing, optimizing every activity. Moralizing "drug" use in the way you suggest is pointlessly minimizing and judgemental.
  - motohagiography 4y ago
    The soccer league example makes sense, as most people play soccer because they enjoy it. Someone hanging around the team to meet soccer players would be kind of weird, and in that case it would be a vice. I would regret if I hurt the drugs' feelings, but they're not a neutral decision. What is the 'ism that describes thinking drug use is generally a risky decision that is part of many unforced poor life choices?

motohagiography 4y ago

Anything that can create dependency is a vice, hence the word being an analogy of a physical vice to something that takes hold of you, and while we can use it, we have to recognize it can take hold. Vices aren't sins, they're just inessential and can also be limitations. We respect that physical tools can be dangerous, and we should treat psychological ones with the same respect. Drugs aren't concretely like sport, but they can have an effect of putting someone in a more sport-like state of mind, though without the competence, skill and moderation of an athelete. If you are on a snowboard at the bottom of a good run you are likely in that moment your peak 'unbuffered' self, and the effect of that is relating to the world with the acceptance of someone who feels they are in a moral equillibrium. Drugs (recreational or psychoactive) can also provide or support that feeling of balance and equillibrium (or intensity), as that's what makes them desirable. Drugs are a tool, but when you use them, you've already accepted that you need them, whereas sport has a completely different orientation to an objective. It's "practice and get better" vs. "use a substance to manage something suboptimal." That is, drugs can be fun and useful, but they are inferior to sport in that they're the option we take when we don't have something to practice to become better at. It's ok to be in that state, but I'm just saying there are just better ones to be in.

shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
That definition of vice is so broad as to be useless. Literally any human activity could be a dependency economically, physically, mentally. Also, sports can easily be something "to manage something suboptimal", e.g. I'm sad because I have no friends therefore I'm going to join a soccer league. And now that I mention it, you've gone and created a dependency on soccer for your meeting new friends. People take drugs sometimes just for fun like any other activity and aren't trying to manage every tiny bit of their life min/maxing, optimizing every activity. Moralizing "drug" use in the way you suggest is pointlessly minimizing and judgemental.
- motohagiography 4y ago
  The soccer league example makes sense, as most people play soccer because they enjoy it. Someone hanging around the team to meet soccer players would be kind of weird, and in that case it would be a vice. I would regret if I hurt the drugs' feelings, but they're not a neutral decision. What is the 'ism that describes thinking drug use is generally a risky decision that is part of many unforced poor life choices?