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I always thought the Vikings were the piratical dudes on the long boats. I thought this was a common understanding, and I wondered if the author was setting up

I always thought the Vikings were the piratical dudes on the long boats. I thought this was a common understanding, and I wondered if the author was setting up a straw man to make for an argument. As an aside, my son asked me a few weeks ago where all the Vikings went. I explained that they definitely run the UK - the Queen is a direct descendent of William the Bastard/Conqueror. And in much of Europe the Norman Vikings contributed much to Royal bloodlines. From there these Vikings - cunningly renamed colonialists as if in deference to the author’s point - set out to plunder the world. Hello America. I’m not an historian, but this seemed like a fair retelling of history to me.

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rocqua 4y ago
The article states (without sources) that people talk if viking villages and viking women and children. That doesn't fit the raiding definition. Similarly the article argues a big difference between the opportunistic independant raiders of the 900s and the politically organized landings with intent to conquer and rule of the later centuries. The second group were not 'wild raiders' but the standard 'one country invading another' of the early middle ages. At least by the article's reasoning.
- Biologist123 4y ago
  We do talk about Danegeld and Norsemen, not Vikinggeld and Vikingmen, from the later age. I worked with a guy from an area of Britain well known for its “Viking” settlements. Whilst at university, his DNA was tested as part of an historical study. He informed me that despite the passage of a thousand years there has been very little dilution of his Norse blood. He was very blonde, but otherwise quite short and peaceable.
  - atchoo 4y ago
    > there has been very little dilution of his Norse blood Hmm. VERY doubtful unless his family has 1000 years of inbreeding. Much more likely to be yet another crap ethnic ancestry test or fiction. Claiming Viking heritage is kind of a common British thing especially if you are blonde. It's the sort of thing you are told as a kid and becomes part of your identity despite genetic studies showing very little remaining trace in the population as a whole. Where was he from? The best chance would be if he came from Orkney but I don't think anyone is actually pure Norse after multiple waves of immigration after the original Norse settlement. If he comes from England then I'd say it's definitely a bogus claim. There are even genetic studies that the Viking settlers themselves were not genetically pure Norse making such blood purity claims even more doubtful.
tboyd47 4y ago
You're spot on. If you transported an average dweller of the Greek, Roman, Persian, Byzantine, or Islamic empire into our day and time, perhaps they would be in shock as to how many sons of Japheth are walking around, and even refuse to leave their home -- not as "racism" as understood today, but more like collective PTSD, or cultural/ancestral memory. Go look at some artists' renderings of Brennus' invasion of Athens, or the Huns' invasion of Rome for a visual. For proof, consider that all the great ancient civilizations of the world built enormous walls along their Northern border to keep out the ancestors of the current ruling class, whom they often referred to by the Biblical or Qur'anic name, "Gog and Magog" -- before they were referred to as Vikings.

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rocqua 4y ago

The article states (without sources) that people talk if viking villages and viking women and children. That doesn't fit the raiding definition. Similarly the article argues a big difference between the opportunistic independant raiders of the 900s and the politically organized landings with intent to conquer and rule of the later centuries. The second group were not 'wild raiders' but the standard 'one country invading another' of the early middle ages. At least by the article's reasoning.

Biologist123 4y ago
We do talk about Danegeld and Norsemen, not Vikinggeld and Vikingmen, from the later age. I worked with a guy from an area of Britain well known for its “Viking” settlements. Whilst at university, his DNA was tested as part of an historical study. He informed me that despite the passage of a thousand years there has been very little dilution of his Norse blood. He was very blonde, but otherwise quite short and peaceable.
- atchoo 4y ago
  > there has been very little dilution of his Norse blood Hmm. VERY doubtful unless his family has 1000 years of inbreeding. Much more likely to be yet another crap ethnic ancestry test or fiction. Claiming Viking heritage is kind of a common British thing especially if you are blonde. It's the sort of thing you are told as a kid and becomes part of your identity despite genetic studies showing very little remaining trace in the population as a whole. Where was he from? The best chance would be if he came from Orkney but I don't think anyone is actually pure Norse after multiple waves of immigration after the original Norse settlement. If he comes from England then I'd say it's definitely a bogus claim. There are even genetic studies that the Viking settlers themselves were not genetically pure Norse making such blood purity claims even more doubtful.

tboyd47 4y ago

You're spot on. If you transported an average dweller of the Greek, Roman, Persian, Byzantine, or Islamic empire into our day and time, perhaps they would be in shock as to how many sons of Japheth are walking around, and even refuse to leave their home -- not as "racism" as understood today, but more like collective PTSD, or cultural/ancestral memory. Go look at some artists' renderings of Brennus' invasion of Athens, or the Huns' invasion of Rome for a visual. For proof, consider that all the great ancient civilizations of the world built enormous walls along their Northern border to keep out the ancestors of the current ruling class, whom they often referred to by the Biblical or Qur'anic name, "Gog and Magog" -- before they were referred to as Vikings.