I will just mention here that Putin can claim what ever he wants. It does not make it true. All this "8 years in Donbas" is a huge fabrication of reality by Rus

I will just mention here that Putin can claim what ever he wants. It does not make it true. All this "8 years in Donbas" is a huge fabrication of reality by Russian propaganda. Russian invasion in Donbas deliberately created a failed state ruled by warlords and gangs. It was no accident. The economy of the whole occupied region has been destroyed. The main reason of reduced civilian casualties has been many fold in my opinion. First is timely evacuation before Russian forces had reached the populated areas. Around 14 million people fled their homes. Where this was not successful there were huge numbers of civilian casualties like in Mariupol where the estimated death toll is over 20000 people. Destruction of lives in Mariupol has been deliberate to set it as an example result of not surrendering. The actual number is also really unknown. Over 1000 of dead have been discovered in the liberated Kyiv region where many people were evacuated before Russian forces and where occupation was very short lived. Russian forces have not managed to take, or even reach large centers yet. Ukrainian air defense has been effective against bombing attempts and Russian capacity to use long range missiles is limited. Most importantly, we also do not know what is really happening on occupied territories. Bucha massacre was only revealed after Russian forces were pushed out in hurry. You are here mixing up many things like they are somehow comparable. You can't compare Serbia, where attacking civilians was not deliberate, or Georgia where fighting did not reach larger centers and was stopped because of international pressure, to Ukraine. In fact mentioning NATO operation in Kosovo war here in any capacity demonstrates your complete lack of integrity. NATO campaign did not target civilians. In contrary only in Mariupol 600 people died in a single deliberate strike against clearly marked civilian shelter. This is 100 more people killed deliberately in a single strike than after full campaign in Kosovo war by accident (including Albanians used as human shield by Serbian forces). Objective of the Kosovo war was to prevent Serbian (confirmed) planned genocide against Kosovo Albanians. Serbians committed deliberate planned genocide against other nations on Balkan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_Plan It is sickening that there are people who call themselves libertarians and who deny this genocide. Objective of the war in Ukraine, as has been clearly stated on numerous occasions, is genocide against Ukrainians. There are already numerous people who could be arrested based on the international law for committing incitement to genocide if they happen to travel out of Russia. Minsk II, at least on paper, is restoring pre 2014 invasion situation and having a democratic referendum about the status of the region. I don't see why Ukraine should be against it and in my opinion Ukraine has made all the steps possible from its side to reach this situation. The agreement is very clear about pulling out all the Russian forces from the territory and about disarming other illegal armed groups. Ukraine can't do it. It can't pull out Russian forces, it was also not in any capacity to disarm the illegal armed groups with heavy weapons. Claiming otherwise and accusing Ukraine in any wrongdoing is extremely dishonest. No democratic referendum is possible if Donbas is still occupied by Russian forces and controlled by terrorist groups. This conflict was beneficial for Russia. So it continued. I do not know why are you so eagerly supporting Russia's imperialist ambitions. There is war in Ukraine because Putin thinks that it belongs to Russia. It is simple as that. How is it so hard to process for self claimed libertarians when this is what Putin himself clearly claims. If you are so eager to give something to Russia, why not give Alaska? Why not give Sunny Isles Beach to Russia? Don't want to? What if Ukrainians also don't want to give their land to Russia?