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I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. The same concept also applies to lots of things b

by Geee 4y ago

I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. The same concept also applies to lots of things besides biological evolution.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Darwinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Darwinism

robonerd 4y ago
> I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. Even that can be tricky for some people, since it requires people to think about fitness in a holistic way. But laypeople are culturally primed to think of athleticism. When talking to people skeptical of evolution, this sort of confusion comes up a lot. A lot of "If evolution makes things stronger then why were dinosaurs stronger than me?"
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  This. And, still biological, “why have some places selected for greater disability like deafness, or seeming disadvantages like below average height?” I don’t want to give too much weight to the “universal” concept, but it’s easy to imagine similar questions about why certain pockets of culture are places where seemingly disadvantaged traits thrive. “Fit” is probably something better explained literally for an introduction, as in fitting a particular set of circumstances. But that’s really complicated and not something everyone grasps when the language is almost always surrounded by superlatives.
  - gus_massa 4y ago
    I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your comment, but some animals that live all their life in caves and some parasites are blind or have lost their eyes completely.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
“Survival” and “fitness” are just as commonly misunderstood for overlapping lay concepts. The concept of “survival of the fittest”, as expressed by Darwin, is a technical term I don’t expect most people to grasp. I question some of the well educated interpretations in the article you linked. In particular “fittest” seems to be the most challenging for people to understand, and the most vulnerable to being misinterpreted or misappropriated.
- Geee 4y ago
  I'd never guess that those specific words would be an obstacle for understanding the concept. Biological evolution is usually taught by explaining random mutation and reproduction, and that surviving mutations are passed on to the next generations. From there it should be quite intuitive to understand how it works as a basic concept.
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by Geee 4y ago

robonerd 4y ago

> I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. Even that can be tricky for some people, since it requires people to think about fitness in a holistic way. But laypeople are culturally primed to think of athleticism. When talking to people skeptical of evolution, this sort of confusion comes up a lot. A lot of "If evolution makes things stronger then why were dinosaurs stronger than me?"

eyelidlessness 4y ago
This. And, still biological, “why have some places selected for greater disability like deafness, or seeming disadvantages like below average height?” I don’t want to give too much weight to the “universal” concept, but it’s easy to imagine similar questions about why certain pockets of culture are places where seemingly disadvantaged traits thrive. “Fit” is probably something better explained literally for an introduction, as in fitting a particular set of circumstances. But that’s really complicated and not something everyone grasps when the language is almost always surrounded by superlatives.
- gus_massa 4y ago
  I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your comment, but some animals that live all their life in caves and some parasites are blind or have lost their eyes completely.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

“Survival” and “fitness” are just as commonly misunderstood for overlapping lay concepts. The concept of “survival of the fittest”, as expressed by Darwin, is a technical term I don’t expect most people to grasp. I question some of the well educated interpretations in the article you linked. In particular “fittest” seems to be the most challenging for people to understand, and the most vulnerable to being misinterpreted or misappropriated.

Geee 4y ago
I'd never guess that those specific words would be an obstacle for understanding the concept. Biological evolution is usually taught by explaining random mutation and reproduction, and that surviving mutations are passed on to the next generations. From there it should be quite intuitive to understand how it works as a basic concept.

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