6 ms·

There was a recent article on here about how species that looked alike were not necessarily related and is was more common to have physically dissimilar but geo

There was a recent article on here about how species that looked alike were not necessarily related and is was more common to have physically dissimilar but geographically close species that were evolutionary relatives. One of the points was that convergent evolution was more common than people thought. These stories appear to support the convergent evolution assertion

frogulis 4y ago
This one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29621646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29621646
mirekrusin 4y ago
I wasn't aware of that some time ago, it's a fascinating insight. I got a lightbulb (going wtf/dark actually!) when watching cartoon or something with triceratops. They looked so much like rhinos. But had eggs. I had trouble reconciling it with evolution. They were so far ancestor-wise but so close physically-looking wise. Convergent evolution is very interesting. It suggests aliens may not be that different from us after all, if exist.
- ativzzz 4y ago
  > It suggests aliens may not be that different from us after all, if exist. Alternatively, they are the more evolutionally convergent species and we will evolve towards something inhuman
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    All of this has happened before before.
    - namaria 4y ago
      I often wonder if we see time as linear just because we're falling through it in a forced direction. Maybe there is no before or after. Just everything possible existing all at the same time. Like, would a conscious falling star think there is only one direction in space?
      - zdragnar 4y ago
        It was a Battlestar Galactica reference. Characters in the show are frequently forced to confront situations in terms of either coincidence, synchronicity or divine intervention. The quote underlines a recurring theme in the show and how people adapt to it (though later on gets rather heavy handed).
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    This has me thinking of some surrealistic scifi with a Space Crab Parliament that only allows species that have sufficiently carcinized so as to be indistinguishable from the existing members.
- graycat 4y ago
  My understanding is that eggs and no-eggs are not as different as might be expected. After all, the no-eggs still have eggs but, just, don't lay the eggs or let us make French toast, custards, or omelets! Maybe a key issue would be the amazing placenta. But maybe the egg animals are not so far from having a placenta because they still DO have to be willing to accept the male sperm without killing it, and part of what is amazing about a placenta is that it lets the foreign tissue of the baby exist and thrive in the womb of the mother without destroying it as foreign tissue -- in part, tolerating the sperm, the egg animals already have to do that. These are some details the hookup culture will want to use as sources of conversation? Maybe?
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Hookup culture and milt are probably not a match waiting to be made in (seven minute underwater) heaven.
  - mirekrusin 4y ago
    Yes, that's different subject on how egg, roe and womb is really the same kind of thing. What was striking to me was how far in ancestry chain you have to go back with rhinos to meet common ancestor with egg-lying triceratops - this ancestor will not look like any of them, however they did meet from completely divergent dna to be so look alike, crazy.
    - graycat 4y ago
      Yup, maybe that looking alike is called convergence. Apparently a big instance is eyes, apparently developed several times with surprisingly close to the same design. Pigs, rhinos, hippos, ..., triceratops all look much the same to me! Hmm ...? Would the real test of sameness be to see if they make similar BBQ???
- Tagbert 4y ago
  If you look at dolphins, ichthyosaurs, and sharks you will see another strong example of convergent evolution from very different ancestries. You have to to go back to the first fishes with jaws to find a common ancestor. Edit: dropped word
- namaria 4y ago
  Considering how little time humans (or any kind of primates) have had on this planet, our overall design doesn't seem super stable. I would bet on crab-like aliens.
  - mirekrusin 4y ago
    Didn't we have monkey- vs octopus- vs rat- like game where monkey- won the race?
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      Corvids have entered the chat. I'd argue that rats are exceptionally close to humans (both are mammals). Similarly other potential candidates: raccoons, bear, possibly dolphins or other cetaceans. Insect, plant, or colonial intelligences would be interesting.
docmechanic 4y ago
Here's another: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220601111749.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220601111749.h... "They found that the animals grouped together by molecular trees lived more closely together geographically than the animals grouped using the morphological trees."
me_me_mu_mu 4y ago
Curious if that applies to humans as well. I’m from S Asia and well.. I do have my distinct looks that I share with my family and community, that are different from other communities. Are humans like that as well? I am aware of the migration theories and people crossing ice bridges and all that, but did people evolve in different areas and then spread out after settling their original area?
- Retric 4y ago
  The closest example of convergent evolution in humans would probably be native populations in South America redeveloping darker skin tones to deal with sun burn the same way we initially had it in Africa. I don’t know the exact genetics, but it seems to be an independent adaptation rather than a holdover from an older population. There might be some others such as lactose tolerance that are less obvious.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    I'd be very interested in hearing about that. My guess would have been that it was more a matter of the previously suppressed genes for dark skin coming back to the fore.
    - nivertech 4y ago
      I agree. Humans reached South (and even North) America only relatively recently in the evolutionary terms - 14-16 thousand years before present. It's not enough time for evolutionary processes to start kicking-in. Another possible explanation (speculation) is that they met and mixed with yet undiscovered hominid species. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas
      - Retric 4y ago
        The current view is skin color is simple evolutionary response which can easily occur on those timescales. https://www.psu.edu/impact/story/the-evolution-of-skin-color/ https://www.psu.edu/impact/story/the-evolution-of-skin-color... Several things have changed as recently as 11,000 years. “Examples for adaptations related to agriculture and animal domestication include East Asian types of ADH1B associated with rice domestication,[71] and lactase persistence.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_human_evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_human_evolution
Zuider 4y ago
Eyes evolved independently in six different phyla. Compound, lensed, eyes are even found in brainless box-jellyfish, which helps them negotiate the mangrove swamps where they live.

frogulis 4y ago

This one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29621646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29621646

mirekrusin 4y ago

I wasn't aware of that some time ago, it's a fascinating insight. I got a lightbulb (going wtf/dark actually!) when watching cartoon or something with triceratops. They looked so much like rhinos. But had eggs. I had trouble reconciling it with evolution. They were so far ancestor-wise but so close physically-looking wise. Convergent evolution is very interesting. It suggests aliens may not be that different from us after all, if exist.

ativzzz 4y ago
> It suggests aliens may not be that different from us after all, if exist. Alternatively, they are the more evolutionally convergent species and we will evolve towards something inhuman
- zdragnar 4y ago
  All of this has happened before before.
  - namaria 4y ago
    I often wonder if we see time as linear just because we're falling through it in a forced direction. Maybe there is no before or after. Just everything possible existing all at the same time. Like, would a conscious falling star think there is only one direction in space?
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      It was a Battlestar Galactica reference. Characters in the show are frequently forced to confront situations in terms of either coincidence, synchronicity or divine intervention. The quote underlines a recurring theme in the show and how people adapt to it (though later on gets rather heavy handed).
- crooked-v 4y ago
  This has me thinking of some surrealistic scifi with a Space Crab Parliament that only allows species that have sufficiently carcinized so as to be indistinguishable from the existing members.
graycat 4y ago
My understanding is that eggs and no-eggs are not as different as might be expected. After all, the no-eggs still have eggs but, just, don't lay the eggs or let us make French toast, custards, or omelets! Maybe a key issue would be the amazing placenta. But maybe the egg animals are not so far from having a placenta because they still DO have to be willing to accept the male sperm without killing it, and part of what is amazing about a placenta is that it lets the foreign tissue of the baby exist and thrive in the womb of the mother without destroying it as foreign tissue -- in part, tolerating the sperm, the egg animals already have to do that. These are some details the hookup culture will want to use as sources of conversation? Maybe?
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Hookup culture and milt are probably not a match waiting to be made in (seven minute underwater) heaven.
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  Yes, that's different subject on how egg, roe and womb is really the same kind of thing. What was striking to me was how far in ancestry chain you have to go back with rhinos to meet common ancestor with egg-lying triceratops - this ancestor will not look like any of them, however they did meet from completely divergent dna to be so look alike, crazy.
  - graycat 4y ago
    Yup, maybe that looking alike is called convergence. Apparently a big instance is eyes, apparently developed several times with surprisingly close to the same design. Pigs, rhinos, hippos, ..., triceratops all look much the same to me! Hmm ...? Would the real test of sameness be to see if they make similar BBQ???
Tagbert 4y ago
If you look at dolphins, ichthyosaurs, and sharks you will see another strong example of convergent evolution from very different ancestries. You have to to go back to the first fishes with jaws to find a common ancestor. Edit: dropped word
namaria 4y ago
Considering how little time humans (or any kind of primates) have had on this planet, our overall design doesn't seem super stable. I would bet on crab-like aliens.
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  Didn't we have monkey- vs octopus- vs rat- like game where monkey- won the race?
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Corvids have entered the chat. I'd argue that rats are exceptionally close to humans (both are mammals). Similarly other potential candidates: raccoons, bear, possibly dolphins or other cetaceans. Insect, plant, or colonial intelligences would be interesting.

docmechanic 4y ago

Here's another: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220601111749.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220601111749.h... "They found that the animals grouped together by molecular trees lived more closely together geographically than the animals grouped using the morphological trees."

me_me_mu_mu 4y ago

Curious if that applies to humans as well. I’m from S Asia and well.. I do have my distinct looks that I share with my family and community, that are different from other communities. Are humans like that as well? I am aware of the migration theories and people crossing ice bridges and all that, but did people evolve in different areas and then spread out after settling their original area?

Retric 4y ago
The closest example of convergent evolution in humans would probably be native populations in South America redeveloping darker skin tones to deal with sun burn the same way we initially had it in Africa. I don’t know the exact genetics, but it seems to be an independent adaptation rather than a holdover from an older population. There might be some others such as lactose tolerance that are less obvious.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  I'd be very interested in hearing about that. My guess would have been that it was more a matter of the previously suppressed genes for dark skin coming back to the fore.
  - nivertech 4y ago
    I agree. Humans reached South (and even North) America only relatively recently in the evolutionary terms - 14-16 thousand years before present. It's not enough time for evolutionary processes to start kicking-in. Another possible explanation (speculation) is that they met and mixed with yet undiscovered hominid species. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas
    - Retric 4y ago
      The current view is skin color is simple evolutionary response which can easily occur on those timescales. https://www.psu.edu/impact/story/the-evolution-of-skin-color/ https://www.psu.edu/impact/story/the-evolution-of-skin-color... Several things have changed as recently as 11,000 years. “Examples for adaptations related to agriculture and animal domestication include East Asian types of ADH1B associated with rice domestication,[71] and lactase persistence.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_human_evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_human_evolution

Zuider 4y ago

Eyes evolved independently in six different phyla. Compound, lensed, eyes are even found in brainless box-jellyfish, which helps them negotiate the mangrove swamps where they live.