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> But it still poses the question: What makes the crab shape so successful that species keep trying to emulate it? That's not how evolution works. Survival of

> But it still poses the question: What makes the crab shape so successful that species keep trying to emulate it? That's not how evolution works. Survival of the fittest isn't about aspiration. It's what's left when the fittest are left standing.

formerkrogemp 4y ago
Convergent evolution in similar environments is fascinating; isn't it?
- bmc7505 4y ago
  Makes you wonder if we would encounter any familiar-looking life forms on other Goldilocks zone planets…
  - formerkrogemp 4y ago
    If you're interested, you may wish to lookup the "Silurian hypothesis, " "drake equation," and "kardeshev scale."
Geee 4y ago
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  “Selection” is a very easily misunderstood technical term which overlaps with concepts people often find more familiar. “Natural” is basically whatever anyone wants it to mean. Without intentional study, basic foundations of evolutionary biology are easily misinterpreted. To the extent I can give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re an outlier and understand it better… you’re an outlier. Not the people who you’re judging.
  - Geee 4y ago
    I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. The same concept also applies to lots of things besides biological evolution.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Darwinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Darwinism
    - robonerd 4y ago
      > I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. Even that can be tricky for some people, since it requires people to think about fitness in a holistic way. But laypeople are culturally primed to think of athleticism. When talking to people skeptical of evolution, this sort of confusion comes up a lot. A lot of "If evolution makes things stronger then why were dinosaurs stronger than me?"
      - eyelidlessness 4y ago
        This. And, still biological, “why have some places selected for greater disability like deafness, or seeming disadvantages like below average height?” I don’t want to give too much weight to the “universal” concept, but it’s easy to imagine similar questions about why certain pockets of culture are places where seemingly disadvantaged traits thrive. “Fit” is probably something better explained literally for an introduction, as in fitting a particular set of circumstances. But that’s really complicated and not something everyone grasps when the language is almost always surrounded by superlatives.
        gus_massa 4y ago
        I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your comment, but some animals that live all their life in caves and some parasites are blind or have lost their eyes completely.
    - eyelidlessness 4y ago
      “Survival” and “fitness” are just as commonly misunderstood for overlapping lay concepts. The concept of “survival of the fittest”, as expressed by Darwin, is a technical term I don’t expect most people to grasp. I question some of the well educated interpretations in the article you linked. In particular “fittest” seems to be the most challenging for people to understand, and the most vulnerable to being misinterpreted or misappropriated.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  Maybe it's a consequence of a bias toward essentialism? We see that bias in racism and hostility towards variant human phenotypes, particularly with respect to sexuality.
robonerd 4y ago
The question is phrased in a dumb way, but I think there's a kernel of a fair question in there. Evolution is the how and why, but it doesn't answer what about the crab shape makes crabbiness so effective.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  For a given gravity, temperature, salinity and life cycle there are a single best and more efficient solution for moving and survive. Evolution will prune all the bad paths so with enough time will go closer and closer to the more efficient design, Crabs evolved to protect their delicate eggs from mud and debris. You need that if you pass most of your time hiding buried in the mud. This means also that with enough data about other planets we could even made a raw guess the shape of creatures that could live there.

formerkrogemp 4y ago

Convergent evolution in similar environments is fascinating; isn't it?

bmc7505 4y ago
Makes you wonder if we would encounter any familiar-looking life forms on other Goldilocks zone planets…
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  If you're interested, you may wish to lookup the "Silurian hypothesis, " "drake equation," and "kardeshev scale."

Geee 4y ago

eyelidlessness 4y ago
“Selection” is a very easily misunderstood technical term which overlaps with concepts people often find more familiar. “Natural” is basically whatever anyone wants it to mean. Without intentional study, basic foundations of evolutionary biology are easily misinterpreted. To the extent I can give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re an outlier and understand it better… you’re an outlier. Not the people who you’re judging.
- Geee 4y ago
  I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. The same concept also applies to lots of things besides biological evolution.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Darwinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Darwinism
  - robonerd 4y ago
    > I mean just the basic concept of survival of the fittest, which doesn't require deep understanding of biology. Even that can be tricky for some people, since it requires people to think about fitness in a holistic way. But laypeople are culturally primed to think of athleticism. When talking to people skeptical of evolution, this sort of confusion comes up a lot. A lot of "If evolution makes things stronger then why were dinosaurs stronger than me?"
    - eyelidlessness 4y ago
      This. And, still biological, “why have some places selected for greater disability like deafness, or seeming disadvantages like below average height?” I don’t want to give too much weight to the “universal” concept, but it’s easy to imagine similar questions about why certain pockets of culture are places where seemingly disadvantaged traits thrive. “Fit” is probably something better explained literally for an introduction, as in fitting a particular set of circumstances. But that’s really complicated and not something everyone grasps when the language is almost always surrounded by superlatives.
      - gus_massa 4y ago
        I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your comment, but some animals that live all their life in caves and some parasites are blind or have lost their eyes completely.
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    “Survival” and “fitness” are just as commonly misunderstood for overlapping lay concepts. The concept of “survival of the fittest”, as expressed by Darwin, is a technical term I don’t expect most people to grasp. I question some of the well educated interpretations in the article you linked. In particular “fittest” seems to be the most challenging for people to understand, and the most vulnerable to being misinterpreted or misappropriated.
pfdietz 4y ago
Maybe it's a consequence of a bias toward essentialism? We see that bias in racism and hostility towards variant human phenotypes, particularly with respect to sexuality.

robonerd 4y ago

The question is phrased in a dumb way, but I think there's a kernel of a fair question in there. Evolution is the how and why, but it doesn't answer what about the crab shape makes crabbiness so effective.

pvaldes 4y ago
For a given gravity, temperature, salinity and life cycle there are a single best and more efficient solution for moving and survive. Evolution will prune all the bad paths so with enough time will go closer and closer to the more efficient design, Crabs evolved to protect their delicate eggs from mud and debris. You need that if you pass most of your time hiding buried in the mud. This means also that with enough data about other planets we could even made a raw guess the shape of creatures that could live there.