5 ms·

Ohio set to allow teachers, other staff to carry guns

15 points by jleyank 4y ago

jleyank 4y ago
What could possibly go wrong?
groffee 4y ago
version_five 4y ago
CBC is not really a credible source. I don't know anything about this story but would look for a slightly less partisan source (like the New York Times or slate.com or The Atlantic) before reacting.
- quantified 4y ago
  [https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ohio-let-teachers-carry-guns-after-24-hours-training-2022-06-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ohio-let-teachers-carry-gun...]
  - jleyank 4y ago
    Their own papers: https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/06/01/gop-lawmakers-pass-bill-allowing-for-armed-teachers-dewine-signals-support/ https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/06/01/gop-lawmakers-pass... Canada's (very) conservative press: https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/ohio-to-let-teachers-carry-guns-after-24-hours-of-training https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/ohio-to-let-... Right-wing newspaper: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/06/02/ohio-poised-lower-training-hours-armed-teachers/7484968001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/06/02/ohio-p... Left-wing news: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/ohio-governor-to-sign-bill-allowing-armed-school-employees https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/ohio-governor-to-sign-bi... Mainstream news: https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/ohio/ohio-house-passes-bill-that-would-allow-school-employees-arm-themselves/530-38c9c2b9-3a8d-4c6e-8226-1019eded4867 https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/ohio/ohio-house-pass... Fox news: https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-teachers-carry-guns-training https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-teachers-carry-guns-training satisfied?
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  It's also state funded by an extremely liberal government who itself tried to push extremely restrictive gun laws. What people are quick to forget is that the difference between a shooting and a mass shooting is a quick and prompt armed response. Basically a good guy with a gun. Ironically, Canadians themselves proved that 15 years ago [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting
  - mikestew 4y ago
    In light of what we're finding out about recent events in Texas, this almost comes across as satire.
  - bediger4000 4y ago
    Uvalde cops entered the chat
  - kenrose 4y ago
    I think every other country in the world has shown that reducing access to guns is the only reliable way to prevent mass shootings. Good guy with a gun is ad hoc, dangerous (collateral damage), and ineffective.
    - 908B64B197 4y ago
      Prevent no. Reduce shootings sure, not mass murders however. Almost as if people with criminal intent or mental issues would find a way and not follow the law. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Ontario_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Ontario_truck_attack [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing [4] https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/quebec-police-release-new-details-in-deadly-halloween-attacks/ https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/quebec-police-release-new-deta... [5] https://www.the-sun.com/news/2445508/toronto-van-attack-incel-killer-guilty/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/2445508/toronto-van-attack-ince... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  I find it funny how you seem skeptical that Republicans would do one of the things they've been saying they would do.
- refurb 4y ago
  The default Canadian approach is to never try and fix things in Canada, just keep reminding voters how much “worse” things are in the US.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    Then why is there a strong brain drain from Canada to the US? It's been like that for decades?
    - refurb 4y ago
      Notice my quotes around “worse”.
  - jleyank 4y ago
    Err, they're increasing the restrictions on gun ownership and the kinds of guns that can be owned (such as long guns)... This strikes me as endeavouring to address the problems rather than sending thoughtsandprayers.
    - version_five 4y ago
      What problem are they addressing? They are jumping on American current events to make some laws that are not relevant for canada or Canadian current events, in order to score political points. Canada has lots of real problems that government could focus on, but instead they love token gestures like this.
      - jleyank 4y ago
        More guns than people down south. Open border, basically, with US, leading increased smuggling. Trying to keep the ability to shoot-to-kill down in agreement with the rest of the G-7. There's enough issues with the cultural exports of the US, so it makes sense to head off some of the less desirable features. Ideally, they'll couple the reduction of gun availability with an increase in mental health treatment, but the different approach to health care helps a little.
olliej 4y ago
So no law change to require the police to do their job, no changes to provide any gun control. Just start fire fights in schools. All so some compensating assholes can play weekend warriors and pretend that they’re Rambo. I bet something as minimal as tying gun ownership to signing up to be enlisted in the event of war would get rid of a bunch.
- jleyank 4y ago
  There you go talking about that well-regulated militia again...
  - olliej 4y ago
    So you agree that there’s the well regulated militia that the 2nd amendment talks about?
    - jleyank 4y ago
      Only if you call the National Guard a militia. There is little or no organization or record-keeping related to gun ownership in the US as I recall. If you want to be a strict constitutionist (sp?), creating a registry of what-you-have, where-you-are and how-you-re-trained would be in consonance with a well-regulated militia. Folks would scream bloody murder if anybody tried that.
      - 0daystock 4y ago
        In this context, “well-regulated” meant “in good working order” - not literally regulated by a governing body.
        jleyank 4y ago
        Unless either of one has a tardis, we don’t know the intent of that phrase. Inferences can be made, but it’s hardly “good working order” without knowing who is available and where. There were no significant weapons differences then but they certainly are now. “Who’sgot the horse” comes to mind as the additional info needed to run a militia.
bediger4000 4y ago
I think this might have tipped the balance towards dropping out at age 16 for me. My middle school and high school teachers were by and large hopeless assholes who let favorite students bully the less favored into submission. Add guns to Coach Keith Jerome? No fucking thank you.
h2odragon 4y ago
I approve; but the problem in Texas wasn't a lack of guns to use against the perpetrator, was it? The cops stood around in "tacticool" gear.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
0daystock 4y ago
Given the overwhelming majority of these horrible, tragic events happen in so called "gun-free" zones, allowing individuals to defend themselves with proportional means is a rational decision.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- EddieDante 4y ago
  Arm the students if you care so much about ensuring individuals can defend themselves. But then you might see real-world re-enactments of a little British movie called If.... I wonder if Stephen King still thinks pulling Rage from publication is a good idea. It doesn't seem to have helped. (Incidentally, reading that novel helped me understand that as tempting a fantasy as it is to bring a gun to school and take my class hostage, it wouldn't get me what I wanted.)
mbrodersen 4y ago
It is easy to imagine a future where schools in the US are armoured fortresses guarded by heavily armed soldiers, and kids being driven to school in military style personal carriers. I am exaggerating of course. Or am I?
EddieDante 4y ago
Beau of the Fifth Column spends about 15 minutes talking about how utterly foolish the notion of arming teachers really is in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o1l2LQGyP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o1l2LQGyP8 24 hours of training is going to be woefully inadequate. It doesn't stand to reason that a teacher can secure their weapon, keep it a secret from their students, and effectively wield it in a school hallway that has almost no cover. Armed teachers are going to get more students killed than the murderous assholes they're supposed to combat. Also, if I was a student in Ohio and I wanted to shoot up my school, I would start by trying to steal the teachers' guns and ammunition. It saves me the trouble of buying my own, makes background checks irrelevant, and makes it harder for the teachers to oppose me by returning fire. tl;dr: Ohio legislators didn't think this shit through, and kids are going to die for their foolishness.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
sn0w_crash 4y ago

15 points by jleyank 4y ago

jleyank 4y ago

What could possibly go wrong?

groffee 4y ago

version_five 4y ago

CBC is not really a credible source. I don't know anything about this story but would look for a slightly less partisan source (like the New York Times or slate.com or The Atlantic) before reacting.

quantified 4y ago
[https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ohio-let-teachers-carry-guns-after-24-hours-training-2022-06-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ohio-let-teachers-carry-gun...]
- jleyank 4y ago
  Their own papers: https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/06/01/gop-lawmakers-pass-bill-allowing-for-armed-teachers-dewine-signals-support/ https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/06/01/gop-lawmakers-pass... Canada's (very) conservative press: https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/ohio-to-let-teachers-carry-guns-after-24-hours-of-training https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/ohio-to-let-... Right-wing newspaper: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/06/02/ohio-poised-lower-training-hours-armed-teachers/7484968001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/06/02/ohio-p... Left-wing news: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/ohio-governor-to-sign-bill-allowing-armed-school-employees https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/ohio-governor-to-sign-bi... Mainstream news: https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/ohio/ohio-house-passes-bill-that-would-allow-school-employees-arm-themselves/530-38c9c2b9-3a8d-4c6e-8226-1019eded4867 https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/ohio/ohio-house-pass... Fox news: https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-teachers-carry-guns-training https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-teachers-carry-guns-training satisfied?
908B64B197 4y ago
It's also state funded by an extremely liberal government who itself tried to push extremely restrictive gun laws. What people are quick to forget is that the difference between a shooting and a mass shooting is a quick and prompt armed response. Basically a good guy with a gun. Ironically, Canadians themselves proved that 15 years ago [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting
- mikestew 4y ago
  In light of what we're finding out about recent events in Texas, this almost comes across as satire.
- bediger4000 4y ago
  Uvalde cops entered the chat
- kenrose 4y ago
  I think every other country in the world has shown that reducing access to guns is the only reliable way to prevent mass shootings. Good guy with a gun is ad hoc, dangerous (collateral damage), and ineffective.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    Prevent no. Reduce shootings sure, not mass murders however. Almost as if people with criminal intent or mental issues would find a way and not follow the law. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Ontario_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Ontario_truck_attack [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing [4] https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/quebec-police-release-new-details-in-deadly-halloween-attacks/ https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/quebec-police-release-new-deta... [5] https://www.the-sun.com/news/2445508/toronto-van-attack-incel-killer-guilty/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/2445508/toronto-van-attack-ince... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack
hotpotamus 4y ago
I find it funny how you seem skeptical that Republicans would do one of the things they've been saying they would do.
refurb 4y ago
The default Canadian approach is to never try and fix things in Canada, just keep reminding voters how much “worse” things are in the US.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  Then why is there a strong brain drain from Canada to the US? It's been like that for decades?
  - refurb 4y ago
    Notice my quotes around “worse”.
- jleyank 4y ago
  Err, they're increasing the restrictions on gun ownership and the kinds of guns that can be owned (such as long guns)... This strikes me as endeavouring to address the problems rather than sending thoughtsandprayers.
  - version_five 4y ago
    What problem are they addressing? They are jumping on American current events to make some laws that are not relevant for canada or Canadian current events, in order to score political points. Canada has lots of real problems that government could focus on, but instead they love token gestures like this.
    - jleyank 4y ago
      More guns than people down south. Open border, basically, with US, leading increased smuggling. Trying to keep the ability to shoot-to-kill down in agreement with the rest of the G-7. There's enough issues with the cultural exports of the US, so it makes sense to head off some of the less desirable features. Ideally, they'll couple the reduction of gun availability with an increase in mental health treatment, but the different approach to health care helps a little.

olliej 4y ago

So no law change to require the police to do their job, no changes to provide any gun control. Just start fire fights in schools. All so some compensating assholes can play weekend warriors and pretend that they’re Rambo. I bet something as minimal as tying gun ownership to signing up to be enlisted in the event of war would get rid of a bunch.

jleyank 4y ago
There you go talking about that well-regulated militia again...
- olliej 4y ago
  So you agree that there’s the well regulated militia that the 2nd amendment talks about?
  - jleyank 4y ago
    Only if you call the National Guard a militia. There is little or no organization or record-keeping related to gun ownership in the US as I recall. If you want to be a strict constitutionist (sp?), creating a registry of what-you-have, where-you-are and how-you-re-trained would be in consonance with a well-regulated militia. Folks would scream bloody murder if anybody tried that.
    - 0daystock 4y ago
      In this context, “well-regulated” meant “in good working order” - not literally regulated by a governing body.
      - jleyank 4y ago
        Unless either of one has a tardis, we don’t know the intent of that phrase. Inferences can be made, but it’s hardly “good working order” without knowing who is available and where. There were no significant weapons differences then but they certainly are now. “Who’sgot the horse” comes to mind as the additional info needed to run a militia.

bediger4000 4y ago

I think this might have tipped the balance towards dropping out at age 16 for me. My middle school and high school teachers were by and large hopeless assholes who let favorite students bully the less favored into submission. Add guns to Coach Keith Jerome? No fucking thank you.

h2odragon 4y ago

I approve; but the problem in Texas wasn't a lack of guns to use against the perpetrator, was it? The cops stood around in "tacticool" gear.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

0daystock 4y ago

Given the overwhelming majority of these horrible, tragic events happen in so called "gun-free" zones, allowing individuals to defend themselves with proportional means is a rational decision.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
EddieDante 4y ago
Arm the students if you care so much about ensuring individuals can defend themselves. But then you might see real-world re-enactments of a little British movie called If.... I wonder if Stephen King still thinks pulling Rage from publication is a good idea. It doesn't seem to have helped. (Incidentally, reading that novel helped me understand that as tempting a fantasy as it is to bring a gun to school and take my class hostage, it wouldn't get me what I wanted.)

mbrodersen 4y ago

It is easy to imagine a future where schools in the US are armoured fortresses guarded by heavily armed soldiers, and kids being driven to school in military style personal carriers. I am exaggerating of course. Or am I?

EddieDante 4y ago

Beau of the Fifth Column spends about 15 minutes talking about how utterly foolish the notion of arming teachers really is in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o1l2LQGyP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o1l2LQGyP8 24 hours of training is going to be woefully inadequate. It doesn't stand to reason that a teacher can secure their weapon, keep it a secret from their students, and effectively wield it in a school hallway that has almost no cover. Armed teachers are going to get more students killed than the murderous assholes they're supposed to combat. Also, if I was a student in Ohio and I wanted to shoot up my school, I would start by trying to steal the teachers' guns and ammunition. It saves me the trouble of buying my own, makes background checks irrelevant, and makes it harder for the teachers to oppose me by returning fire. tl;dr: Ohio legislators didn't think this shit through, and kids are going to die for their foolishness.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

sn0w_crash 4y ago