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Ah! Here we go: > Thenmozhi Soundararajan, the founder of Equality Labs, a Dalit civil rights organisation Hm ok https://www.equalitylabs.org/mission https://

Ah! Here we go: > Thenmozhi Soundararajan, the founder of Equality Labs, a Dalit civil rights organisation Hm ok https://www.equalitylabs.org/mission https://www.equalitylabs.org/mission > Equality Labs is an Ambedkarite South Asian power-building organization What is this Ambedkarite thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit_Buddhist_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit_Buddhist_movement > The movement was launched in 1956 by Ambedkar when nearly half a million Dalits – formerly untouchables – joined him and converted to Navayana Buddhism So it's a Buddhist deal. Is Buddhism anti-hinduism? Um, it isn't exactly pro-hinduism, now is it? I'm not sure that's the steeliest man, but it's a start.

honkler 4y ago
so caste based discrimination is indeed a part of hinduism, right? Because that is what calling dalit activism "hinduphobic" actually implies.
- thematrixturtle 4y ago
  The right-wing party line on this is that caste was invented by the British to conquer and divide Indians, and has nothing to do with Hinduism. So if you claim castes still exist, you're by definition a Hinduphobic colonialist. The awkward fact that jati/varna is extensively covered in pre-British Hindu scriptures is handwaved away through claiming it's all spiritual metaphors and being a Brahmin was all about mental purity etc, not bloodlines.
- ajross 4y ago
  In largely the same way that segregation was framed as a "Southern Way of Life", yes, that's what it seems like to me too. Civil rights era apologia was filled with descriptions of how separate but equal was a perfectly fine system and how everyone was OK with it down south. I get the same vibe here.
tootie 4y ago
I'm not in India and not really qualified to comment, but I think the big missing context in all this that Hindu nationalism is the prevalent social and political movement in India right now.
- jleyank 4y ago
  Apartheid is the prevalent social and political movement in Quebec right now as well. As the world shifts to the Right (for whatever reason), this sh*t reappears. Or reasserts. People always hate "them".
  - notarowboat 4y ago
    Can you give me a link or something because I'm from Quebec and I have no idea what you're talking about.
    - jleyank 4y ago
      Bill 21. Bill 96. What language you can speak. What school you can/can't go to. What you have to say in stores. What you can and can't wear. Where you can and can't work. Hell, they admitted the damn laws violate their own charter of rights and freedoms when they passed them. But they "they want to preserve their culture". I chose apartheid to avoid Godwin'ing the discussion, but it applies there as well. Or the US South in the 50's, and all those other places where a group feels threatened by "them" and are disinterested in expanding the definition of society or even citizenship.
      - notarowboat 4y ago
        Bill 96 does look like segregation to me, but comparing it to apartheid or Nazism might be a slight exaggeration. I just don't think these issues are as simple as "good or bad". At the end of the day, English overtaking French is a real phenomenon. Are they supposed to just sit there and let it happen only to end up with a possibly more divided society where half the population can't communicate with the other? I'm not saying the solution they came up with is right (actually I think having to pass these types of laws is just a sign of weakness) but at the same time I refuse to think that it's fuelled by xenophobia.
        jleyank 4y ago
        No, not Nazism although there are resemblances to the Nuremberg laws. Apartheid, however, is a reasonable label in that the in-group is creating a (hostile) set of rules that enforces their world view in spite of others. They know it's discriminatory. It's against various UN and country level guarantees of freedom, and the sole justification is "it's supported by the majority". Hell, lynching black folk were "supported by the majority" in the US back then. Might still be, based on where you look. Change-or-leave isn't a terribly even-handed approach when you expect it to NOT be applied to yourself when outside of Quebec. And as others have said and written, if you have to take such aggressive measures to preserve one's culture, it's already dead. Trying to make the internet be something other than English or Mandarin is a fools errand. I would think it's being driven by the boomers who have spent their lives in pursuit of a goal. They'll accept the scorched-earth "victory" independent of the cost, as otherwise their adult lives were mis-spent or wasted. Their counterparts had 'Nam to deal with, or the wars of the 80's and 90's. They could have tried to make the situation positive and played along with the rules of civil society. But they chose not to and Montreal (again) will pay the price. The rest of the province couldn't care less.

honkler 4y ago

so caste based discrimination is indeed a part of hinduism, right? Because that is what calling dalit activism "hinduphobic" actually implies.

thematrixturtle 4y ago
The right-wing party line on this is that caste was invented by the British to conquer and divide Indians, and has nothing to do with Hinduism. So if you claim castes still exist, you're by definition a Hinduphobic colonialist. The awkward fact that jati/varna is extensively covered in pre-British Hindu scriptures is handwaved away through claiming it's all spiritual metaphors and being a Brahmin was all about mental purity etc, not bloodlines.
ajross 4y ago
In largely the same way that segregation was framed as a "Southern Way of Life", yes, that's what it seems like to me too. Civil rights era apologia was filled with descriptions of how separate but equal was a perfectly fine system and how everyone was OK with it down south. I get the same vibe here.

tootie 4y ago

I'm not in India and not really qualified to comment, but I think the big missing context in all this that Hindu nationalism is the prevalent social and political movement in India right now.

jleyank 4y ago
Apartheid is the prevalent social and political movement in Quebec right now as well. As the world shifts to the Right (for whatever reason), this sh*t reappears. Or reasserts. People always hate "them".
- notarowboat 4y ago
  Can you give me a link or something because I'm from Quebec and I have no idea what you're talking about.
  - jleyank 4y ago
    Bill 21. Bill 96. What language you can speak. What school you can/can't go to. What you have to say in stores. What you can and can't wear. Where you can and can't work. Hell, they admitted the damn laws violate their own charter of rights and freedoms when they passed them. But they "they want to preserve their culture". I chose apartheid to avoid Godwin'ing the discussion, but it applies there as well. Or the US South in the 50's, and all those other places where a group feels threatened by "them" and are disinterested in expanding the definition of society or even citizenship.
    - notarowboat 4y ago
      Bill 96 does look like segregation to me, but comparing it to apartheid or Nazism might be a slight exaggeration. I just don't think these issues are as simple as "good or bad". At the end of the day, English overtaking French is a real phenomenon. Are they supposed to just sit there and let it happen only to end up with a possibly more divided society where half the population can't communicate with the other? I'm not saying the solution they came up with is right (actually I think having to pass these types of laws is just a sign of weakness) but at the same time I refuse to think that it's fuelled by xenophobia.
      - jleyank 4y ago
        No, not Nazism although there are resemblances to the Nuremberg laws. Apartheid, however, is a reasonable label in that the in-group is creating a (hostile) set of rules that enforces their world view in spite of others. They know it's discriminatory. It's against various UN and country level guarantees of freedom, and the sole justification is "it's supported by the majority". Hell, lynching black folk were "supported by the majority" in the US back then. Might still be, based on where you look. Change-or-leave isn't a terribly even-handed approach when you expect it to NOT be applied to yourself when outside of Quebec. And as others have said and written, if you have to take such aggressive measures to preserve one's culture, it's already dead. Trying to make the internet be something other than English or Mandarin is a fools errand. I would think it's being driven by the boomers who have spent their lives in pursuit of a goal. They'll accept the scorched-earth "victory" independent of the cost, as otherwise their adult lives were mis-spent or wasted. Their counterparts had 'Nam to deal with, or the wars of the 80's and 90's. They could have tried to make the situation positive and played along with the rules of civil society. But they chose not to and Montreal (again) will pay the price. The rest of the province couldn't care less.