4 ms·

Say what you will, but this just hurts consumers.

by baisq 4y ago

mping 4y ago
If that is the price to pay for drivers to get treated fairly, so be it.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Also it is not like having essentially private driver is human right. It is always a trade-off and such work should be reasonably compensated in a way that one doing it can afford reasonable living. Hard concept for many in USA...
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Well, if not being allowed to exploit your workers hurts consumers, then either consumers have to pay more, or your business shouldn't exist. In fact, no business should exist that has "exploit your workers" as a necessary part of the business model.
rabite 4y ago
So do child labor laws. Think of how much cheaper metals and coal would be if we could have children work in the mines again!
- Ekaros 4y ago
  And OSHA... Why do employers need to pay for protective gear? Or for health-care, or for many other things... Just how much cheaper things could be if we did out all of that pesky regulation.
- baisq 4y ago
  Children cannot consent, adults can.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Adults in shit economic situations will not be able to do informed consent. Hence rules like this.
thenanante 4y ago
Your argument seems to be in bad faith, but I'll bite. As a Swiss, OKAY! Whatever, so my life sucks 0.1% more in order for thousands of potential employees in the taxi service to get better living conditions as demanded by Swiss employment laws. What a proud "hurt" Swiss consumer I am. I make > $110k with just a single year of experience as a software developer, I can live super nicely and safe a ton of money. I'm also super happy and proud that retail and service workers get > 40k in this country, so they can live a decent life as well even if they didn't have the privileges to become highly educated and specialized.
paxys 4y ago
Not having a certain section of society live below the poverty line and rely on government handouts to survive actually helps consumers in the long run even if you have to pay a couple dollars more for your taxi ride. Go walk the streets of Zurich and then San Francisco to see the difference in quality of life that these oppressed citizens enjoy.
- AlchemistCamp 4y ago
  One thing that should temper your Swiss pride (or anti-American bias) is that homeless and hopeless people don’t flood into Zurich, or Switzerland, for that matter. They do into SF. Most get back on their feet and leave after a couple of years. Those with more serious issues, continue to struggle, stay and aggregate. It's definitely not a good situation, but it's far bigger than SF, let alone the classification of Uber drivers as gig workers.
- npc12345 4y ago
  The evil companies are paying low wages, let's expel the companies where they'll take their capital to some other country and leave all employes unemployed, that'll show them!
  - jcfrei 4y ago
    This is a possible outcome of increased regulation but not a necessary one. It can also lead to a redistribution of economic rents, in this case from Uber shareholders to drivers, while the market equilibrium (number of people offering car rides) stays the same.
    - npc12345 4y ago
      > but not a necessary one. I know, but, a friggin 1 billion fine? They're most likely just pulling out of Switzerland altogether.
      - hardboiled_ 4y ago
        It's not a fine. It's what Uber owes in social security back payments as well as other obligations to their drivers, for instance, compulsory accident insurance.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
This is as meaningless as... Say what you will, but the opposite only benefits Uber shareholders.
havblue 4y ago
Having basically no overhead for customer service, human resources, benefits etc will certainly cut costs for all parties. It's also the definition of a race to the bottom. Cutting costs in shipping and having your drivers entirely managed by algorithms might result in an anxious person throwing your packages on your doorstep or scraping your driveway with their truck. You can return packages at least. Cutting costs on a taxi service get a bit frightening when you think about it. The person you're trusting your life to could be anyone that convinced an algorithm to hire them for the least amount of money possible.

Say what you will, but this just hurts consumers.

by baisq 4y ago

Say what you will, but this just hurts consumers.

mping 4y ago

If that is the price to pay for drivers to get treated fairly, so be it.

Ekaros 4y ago
Also it is not like having essentially private driver is human right. It is always a trade-off and such work should be reasonably compensated in a way that one doing it can afford reasonable living. Hard concept for many in USA...

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

Well, if not being allowed to exploit your workers hurts consumers, then either consumers have to pay more, or your business shouldn't exist. In fact, no business should exist that has "exploit your workers" as a necessary part of the business model.

rabite 4y ago

So do child labor laws. Think of how much cheaper metals and coal would be if we could have children work in the mines again!

Ekaros 4y ago
And OSHA... Why do employers need to pay for protective gear? Or for health-care, or for many other things... Just how much cheaper things could be if we did out all of that pesky regulation.
baisq 4y ago
Children cannot consent, adults can.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Adults in shit economic situations will not be able to do informed consent. Hence rules like this.

thenanante 4y ago

Your argument seems to be in bad faith, but I'll bite. As a Swiss, OKAY! Whatever, so my life sucks 0.1% more in order for thousands of potential employees in the taxi service to get better living conditions as demanded by Swiss employment laws. What a proud "hurt" Swiss consumer I am. I make > $110k with just a single year of experience as a software developer, I can live super nicely and safe a ton of money. I'm also super happy and proud that retail and service workers get > 40k in this country, so they can live a decent life as well even if they didn't have the privileges to become highly educated and specialized.

paxys 4y ago

Not having a certain section of society live below the poverty line and rely on government handouts to survive actually helps consumers in the long run even if you have to pay a couple dollars more for your taxi ride. Go walk the streets of Zurich and then San Francisco to see the difference in quality of life that these oppressed citizens enjoy.

AlchemistCamp 4y ago
One thing that should temper your Swiss pride (or anti-American bias) is that homeless and hopeless people don’t flood into Zurich, or Switzerland, for that matter. They do into SF. Most get back on their feet and leave after a couple of years. Those with more serious issues, continue to struggle, stay and aggregate. It's definitely not a good situation, but it's far bigger than SF, let alone the classification of Uber drivers as gig workers.
npc12345 4y ago
The evil companies are paying low wages, let's expel the companies where they'll take their capital to some other country and leave all employes unemployed, that'll show them!
- jcfrei 4y ago
  This is a possible outcome of increased regulation but not a necessary one. It can also lead to a redistribution of economic rents, in this case from Uber shareholders to drivers, while the market equilibrium (number of people offering car rides) stays the same.
  - npc12345 4y ago
    > but not a necessary one. I know, but, a friggin 1 billion fine? They're most likely just pulling out of Switzerland altogether.
    - hardboiled_ 4y ago
      It's not a fine. It's what Uber owes in social security back payments as well as other obligations to their drivers, for instance, compulsory accident insurance.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

This is as meaningless as... Say what you will, but the opposite only benefits Uber shareholders.

havblue 4y ago

Having basically no overhead for customer service, human resources, benefits etc will certainly cut costs for all parties. It's also the definition of a race to the bottom. Cutting costs in shipping and having your drivers entirely managed by algorithms might result in an anxious person throwing your packages on your doorstep or scraping your driveway with their truck. You can return packages at least. Cutting costs on a taxi service get a bit frightening when you think about it. The person you're trusting your life to could be anyone that convinced an algorithm to hire them for the least amount of money possible.