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I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as

I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as it didn't have this jerky stopping behavior before that.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Happens often on my Y, does not happen on my legacy S and X (circa 2018 and 2019) that are equipped with Continental radar front facing radar. I believe even current S and X vehicles are still getting radar installed, so Tesla is only being cheap on the 3 and Y to keep moving them at volume as a supply chain mitigation.
- brandonagr2 4y ago
  Tesla stopped putting radar units in new Model S/X in February this year. https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    My information is outdated, I appreciate the correction.
- Reubachi 4y ago
  vehicles from 2019 being referred to as "legacy" is the most infuriating thing I've read today. Of course no offense to OP, i've heard it referred as such by others and I know it's not literal. But it's maddening to me though that a vehicle that is still under warranty has a moniker that traditionally means end of life/support in software.
  - ec109685 4y ago
    With most other cars, it becomes legacy as soon as you drive it off the lot and they release the next model year At least Tesla mostly keeps updating their older car’s software.
    - Reubachi 4y ago
      (bit late on the reply, sorry)Caveat; I think EV are far superior to ICE vehicles in every measurable metric. That said, I don't understand what you mean. 9.9/10 of new, non motorsports ICE vehicles are backed by warranty bumper to bumper for 60-100k miles. Further, the parts/labor pipeline is massive.OEM/aftermarket keep producing parts for years after the vehicle's generation stops being sold as new. In the case of Tesla and some Boutique EVs, there is no aftermarket, and there's litigation from Tesla if you try to repair/produce aftermarket parts. "At least tesla mostly keeps updating their older car's software" is not a positive. It should be guaranteed for 60k-100k miles, and the aftermarket should be allowed to repair it. Tesla makes their vehicles "legacy" on purpose.
Robotbeat 4y ago
I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time. (& I really do think he believes that because he obsessed over the AI safety thing in the past in a way I think is unforced and a little silly and pretty clearly falsified at this point.) I do think radar ought to help, at least in principle. Although they probably can eventually get vision to be better than Vision+Radar used to be, although I STILL think it’d be better off also with radar (and perhaps a different, better kind of radar unit).
- robonerd 4y ago
  > I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time. Yes, that and his attitudes towards LIDAR seem like motivated reasoning / sour grapes. "LIDAR is too expensive to put in cars I'm selling today, therefore it isn't good anyway." (I can't reach the grapes, therefore they're sour and I didn't want them anyway.) Why else would he criticize LIDAR with inane arguments about LIDAR not being able to read street signs, as though anybody is suggesting LIDAR-only rather than LIDAR+Optical?
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  I'm convinced they ditched radar because Musk wanted to make more money. Sort of like how GM and Ford used to have actuaries work out the cost of a fuel tank that wouldn't incinerate the occupants in a crash vs legal settlement costs. Except minus actuaries and instead just Musk figuring "Well I've gotten away with everything else, why not this as well?" and sadly being right. From ignoring COVID health orders to flashing his dick to repeated stock manipulation to making billions in a company that stole people's money constantly "because we're not a bank", Musk hasn't faced any significant repercussions for anything immoral or illegal he's ever done.
- dylan604 4y ago
  >Vision+Radar I would imagine that multiple systems with a majority wins type of thinking would be ideal. Would probably need another system for it to be an odd number.
JoshGlazebrook 4y ago
Radar is only turned off if you are accepted into the full self driving beta and turn it on. Then it switches over to full vision.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Delphiki 4y ago
I believe they're still using radar in cars where the hardware exists (unless you have FSD, in which case it's using vision only).

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Happens often on my Y, does not happen on my legacy S and X (circa 2018 and 2019) that are equipped with Continental radar front facing radar. I believe even current S and X vehicles are still getting radar installed, so Tesla is only being cheap on the 3 and Y to keep moving them at volume as a supply chain mitigation.

brandonagr2 4y ago
Tesla stopped putting radar units in new Model S/X in February this year. https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  My information is outdated, I appreciate the correction.
Reubachi 4y ago
vehicles from 2019 being referred to as "legacy" is the most infuriating thing I've read today. Of course no offense to OP, i've heard it referred as such by others and I know it's not literal. But it's maddening to me though that a vehicle that is still under warranty has a moniker that traditionally means end of life/support in software.
- ec109685 4y ago
  With most other cars, it becomes legacy as soon as you drive it off the lot and they release the next model year At least Tesla mostly keeps updating their older car’s software.
  - Reubachi 4y ago
    (bit late on the reply, sorry)Caveat; I think EV are far superior to ICE vehicles in every measurable metric. That said, I don't understand what you mean. 9.9/10 of new, non motorsports ICE vehicles are backed by warranty bumper to bumper for 60-100k miles. Further, the parts/labor pipeline is massive.OEM/aftermarket keep producing parts for years after the vehicle's generation stops being sold as new. In the case of Tesla and some Boutique EVs, there is no aftermarket, and there's litigation from Tesla if you try to repair/produce aftermarket parts. "At least tesla mostly keeps updating their older car's software" is not a positive. It should be guaranteed for 60k-100k miles, and the aftermarket should be allowed to repair it. Tesla makes their vehicles "legacy" on purpose.

Robotbeat 4y ago

I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time. (& I really do think he believes that because he obsessed over the AI safety thing in the past in a way I think is unforced and a little silly and pretty clearly falsified at this point.) I do think radar ought to help, at least in principle. Although they probably can eventually get vision to be better than Vision+Radar used to be, although I STILL think it’d be better off also with radar (and perhaps a different, better kind of radar unit).

robonerd 4y ago
> I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time. Yes, that and his attitudes towards LIDAR seem like motivated reasoning / sour grapes. "LIDAR is too expensive to put in cars I'm selling today, therefore it isn't good anyway." (I can't reach the grapes, therefore they're sour and I didn't want them anyway.) Why else would he criticize LIDAR with inane arguments about LIDAR not being able to read street signs, as though anybody is suggesting LIDAR-only rather than LIDAR+Optical?
KennyBlanken 4y ago
I'm convinced they ditched radar because Musk wanted to make more money. Sort of like how GM and Ford used to have actuaries work out the cost of a fuel tank that wouldn't incinerate the occupants in a crash vs legal settlement costs. Except minus actuaries and instead just Musk figuring "Well I've gotten away with everything else, why not this as well?" and sadly being right. From ignoring COVID health orders to flashing his dick to repeated stock manipulation to making billions in a company that stole people's money constantly "because we're not a bank", Musk hasn't faced any significant repercussions for anything immoral or illegal he's ever done.
dylan604 4y ago
>Vision+Radar I would imagine that multiple systems with a majority wins type of thinking would be ideal. Would probably need another system for it to be an odd number.

JoshGlazebrook 4y ago

Radar is only turned off if you are accepted into the full self driving beta and turn it on. Then it switches over to full vision.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Delphiki 4y ago

I believe they're still using radar in cars where the hardware exists (unless you have FSD, in which case it's using vision only).