3 ms·

Going through the grueling immigration process, Homeland Security eventually sits across the table from you, looks you in the eye, and asks "have you ever commi

Going through the grueling immigration process, Homeland Security eventually sits across the table from you, looks you in the eye, and asks "have you ever committed a crime for which you have not been convicted?"

autoexec 4y ago
I doubt there's a single person alive who could answer "no" to that question with certainty and still be telling the truth. What is the purpose of a question like that?
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  It's malevalent question - most people don't even know the names of all crimes that exist - let alone defences avaliable and how they all work togetehr. Breaking into someone's house is obviously a crime, but if you were running away from a axe-wielding murder then it isn't. Taking someone's car is theft, but it isn't if 'they would have agreed for you to use it if they had known the situatiojn at hand'.
- stevenjgarner 4y ago
  Exactly. It bothers me every day. It defines much of my self-image in being present in the US. I was confronted with that question in my citizenship interview, and more recently in my global entry interview. I know of many others who have been asked the same thing. I'm thinking "heck I drove 9% over the speed limit driving to this interview. They probably know that. When I parked the car, I jay-walked across the empty street into the building. They have that on video!". If I say no, if I say yes, either way I have committed perjury. All just because I wanted my slice of the American dream. I had a friend (deceased) who was a federal agent. He explained to me years ago that the US code is intentionally drafted so that EVERYONE is a criminal (sorry @ClumsyPilot, a "suspect"). If you are in compliance with one section of code you are automatically in violation of another. If the 3-letter agency wants to get you, they can ALWAYS get you. I'm not sure that I believe that. I'm not sure I want to believe that. But he certainly believed that.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
Do they actually ask that? That's madness. It's really not a valid question -> only a court can determine if you've commited a crime, that's why we call people suspects, not criminals, before they are convicted. For example recently in UK, a group of 4 people have toppled a statue and threw it in the river. This sounds like a crime to any normal person, and they were charged with criminal damage. The accused raised defences of lawful excuse, owner's consent, etc. They were found not guilty - with many people foaming at the mouth because they disagreed with the decision, media calling them criminals, you know the drill. But the opinions of random people are just that - opinions. In fact even if you think you commited the crime, the court is not required to accept your guilty plea and could still find your innocent. Only judge and jury can evaluate defences presented and decide if this is a crime. So what should these four people answer to such a question? Or suppose those 4 people where never charged- what should they have answered? case in question: https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/06/do-the-verdicts-in-the-trial-of-the-colston-4-signal-something-wrong-with-our-jury-system-10-things-you-should-know/ https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/06/do-the-verdicts-in...
- stevenjgarner 4y ago
  > But the opinions of random people are just that - opinions. Yet the opinion of the US (UK?) Government is so final, and often without appeal.

autoexec 4y ago

I doubt there's a single person alive who could answer "no" to that question with certainty and still be telling the truth. What is the purpose of a question like that?

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
It's malevalent question - most people don't even know the names of all crimes that exist - let alone defences avaliable and how they all work togetehr. Breaking into someone's house is obviously a crime, but if you were running away from a axe-wielding murder then it isn't. Taking someone's car is theft, but it isn't if 'they would have agreed for you to use it if they had known the situatiojn at hand'.
stevenjgarner 4y ago
Exactly. It bothers me every day. It defines much of my self-image in being present in the US. I was confronted with that question in my citizenship interview, and more recently in my global entry interview. I know of many others who have been asked the same thing. I'm thinking "heck I drove 9% over the speed limit driving to this interview. They probably know that. When I parked the car, I jay-walked across the empty street into the building. They have that on video!". If I say no, if I say yes, either way I have committed perjury. All just because I wanted my slice of the American dream. I had a friend (deceased) who was a federal agent. He explained to me years ago that the US code is intentionally drafted so that EVERYONE is a criminal (sorry @ClumsyPilot, a "suspect"). If you are in compliance with one section of code you are automatically in violation of another. If the 3-letter agency wants to get you, they can ALWAYS get you. I'm not sure that I believe that. I'm not sure I want to believe that. But he certainly believed that.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

Do they actually ask that? That's madness. It's really not a valid question -> only a court can determine if you've commited a crime, that's why we call people suspects, not criminals, before they are convicted. For example recently in UK, a group of 4 people have toppled a statue and threw it in the river. This sounds like a crime to any normal person, and they were charged with criminal damage. The accused raised defences of lawful excuse, owner's consent, etc. They were found not guilty - with many people foaming at the mouth because they disagreed with the decision, media calling them criminals, you know the drill. But the opinions of random people are just that - opinions. In fact even if you think you commited the crime, the court is not required to accept your guilty plea and could still find your innocent. Only judge and jury can evaluate defences presented and decide if this is a crime. So what should these four people answer to such a question? Or suppose those 4 people where never charged- what should they have answered? case in question: https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/06/do-the-verdicts-in-the-trial-of-the-colston-4-signal-something-wrong-with-our-jury-system-10-things-you-should-know/ https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/06/do-the-verdicts-in...

stevenjgarner 4y ago
> But the opinions of random people are just that - opinions. Yet the opinion of the US (UK?) Government is so final, and often without appeal.