4 ms·

>I don't know, that one is a little fuzzy. Animals are difficult legally. Pets, for example- if we decide they have their own will and it should be illegal to p

>I don't know, that one is a little fuzzy. Animals are difficult legally. Pets, for example- if we decide they have their own will and it should be illegal to prevent them from going outside, many of them will just up and get eaten. we somehow manage it with 2-4 year old children which is what most advanced animals (cats, dogs, dolphins, killer whales, apes) are known to be as smart as (the animals may be even smarter, we just can't yet recognize it and communicate accordingly) Looking back at the history, it was, for example, normal to sell children or to castrate children for specific practical purposes, like Chinese eunuchs or Italian castrati, ie. treating them just like property. Today we are evolved enough to not do it. The same with animals.

sliverstorm 15y ago
So if we are not to sell pets, does that mean we need to give birth to them ourselves? Obvious situational differences aside, I'd actually hazard that pets aren't too far away from the rights of 2 year olds.
- VladRussian 15y ago
  >So if we are not to sell pets, does that mean we need to give birth to them ourselves? 200 years ago it would sound like a valid issue about slaves. Today it sound like absurd. As long as you are boxed inside the "owning" paradigm, your issues sound valid and arguments are sound. Yet, once the paradigm shift in people minds happens - from "owning" to "coexistence" - the issues and the arguments would become either moot or absurd.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    So in the coexistence model, how would things work? I'm genuinely curious how you see things functioning.
    - VladRussian 15y ago
      lets suppose there is an alien race present in the neighborhood of the Solar system that's technologically and mentally superior to human race. Applying our current human standards it would be natural if the aliens apply the "owning" paradigm toward humans - we'd make such a funny, easily trainable pets! They would control our population through neutering and mass euthanizing as to them it would sure look like we aren't able to manage it on our own. They would keep us "inside" as otherwise we can go outside and hurt ourselves (if we brought to other planets) or start a brawl or even war among ourselves if we left to our devices on Earth. Lets suppose that after some time the aliens would notice that humans are also intelligent beings, with intelligence that would seem to the aliens as much inferior, yet still intelligence, and these rough sounds produced by humans is actually a meaningful, though as would seem to the aliens very primitive, communication. And if the aliens would try to imagine changing "owning" to "coexistence" model they would naturally ask each other the question "So in the coexistence model, how would things work? I'm genuinely curious how you see things functioning." Would you have anything to say to the aliens in response to such a question? :) [Note: the obvious elephant in the room of the human/animals relationship - meat eating - will be addressed in a few decades by synthetic meat which by superceding natural meat in energetic efficiency and biological fitness for human body would make eating natural meat a stupid disgusting obsolete habit like smoking. Note to the note : i'm not a vegetarian and quit smoking 10+ years ago]

sliverstorm 15y ago

So if we are not to sell pets, does that mean we need to give birth to them ourselves? Obvious situational differences aside, I'd actually hazard that pets aren't too far away from the rights of 2 year olds.

VladRussian 15y ago
>So if we are not to sell pets, does that mean we need to give birth to them ourselves? 200 years ago it would sound like a valid issue about slaves. Today it sound like absurd. As long as you are boxed inside the "owning" paradigm, your issues sound valid and arguments are sound. Yet, once the paradigm shift in people minds happens - from "owning" to "coexistence" - the issues and the arguments would become either moot or absurd.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  So in the coexistence model, how would things work? I'm genuinely curious how you see things functioning.
  - VladRussian 15y ago
    lets suppose there is an alien race present in the neighborhood of the Solar system that's technologically and mentally superior to human race. Applying our current human standards it would be natural if the aliens apply the "owning" paradigm toward humans - we'd make such a funny, easily trainable pets! They would control our population through neutering and mass euthanizing as to them it would sure look like we aren't able to manage it on our own. They would keep us "inside" as otherwise we can go outside and hurt ourselves (if we brought to other planets) or start a brawl or even war among ourselves if we left to our devices on Earth. Lets suppose that after some time the aliens would notice that humans are also intelligent beings, with intelligence that would seem to the aliens as much inferior, yet still intelligence, and these rough sounds produced by humans is actually a meaningful, though as would seem to the aliens very primitive, communication. And if the aliens would try to imagine changing "owning" to "coexistence" model they would naturally ask each other the question "So in the coexistence model, how would things work? I'm genuinely curious how you see things functioning." Would you have anything to say to the aliens in response to such a question? :) [Note: the obvious elephant in the room of the human/animals relationship - meat eating - will be addressed in a few decades by synthetic meat which by superceding natural meat in energetic efficiency and biological fitness for human body would make eating natural meat a stupid disgusting obsolete habit like smoking. Note to the note : i'm not a vegetarian and quit smoking 10+ years ago]