4 ms·

Unless the LEA or the judge are savvy enough, a warrant might be issued allowing police to raid your house and seize all your computer equipment. If that happe

Unless the LEA or the judge are savvy enough, a warrant might be issued allowing police to raid your house and seize all your computer equipment. If that happens, you'll get arrested in front of at least some of your neighbors, who might also find out why you were arrested. (Even some of the local cops might think you're just getting away on a technicality.) Eventually being found innocent or not charged may not matter to some of them. You will be in jail, at least for a while. You now have an arrest record. When people ask, "Have you ever been arrested," the answer will be "Yes." You might lose your job. Your computer equipment will be seized and police will go through it. It'll be used against you in and out of court—even things that are legal—if they think it makes you look bad or will get you to talk. Getting that equipment back after charges are dropped or you are found innocent in court may or may not be slow and byzantine. You will need to pay a lawyer, both to defend yourself, and to help you get your equipment back. ...

ansible 4y ago
I wish I could upvote this comment more. Yes, this is all fixable... if you are not poor and not rather unlucky. But it will take time and money. Even if you don't lose your job, I'd estimate that it would cost you $20K on the low end for legal fees. Also, if you've done anything else even slightly illegal, and the LEA finds evidence of that when searching your stuff, even though you've been careful and haven't had cause to attract their attention previously... well... that's another whole bunch of trouble.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  The justice system in the US is so infuriatingly bad, I don’t even know where to start when it comes to fixing it. The class issues are enormous; if you’re wealthy enough to be able to defend yourself, you’ll still only be treated with something only loosely approximating fairness at absolutely best. However, if you can’t afford tens of thousands for an attorney, experts, etc, you’re pretty much fucked. We need to seriously rethink how we treat the accused in this country, from automatic sanctions that are applied to any accused, to how much leeway the police and justice system have to destroy people’s lives before there’s even been any evidence presented of an actual crime.
  - macintux 4y ago
    Not to mention the loss of voting rights once you’ve been convicted of a felony. Completely broken.
  - rurp 4y ago
    To add to this, it is insane that someone can be locked in jail for years without being convicted for a crime. In some cases innocent people have spent over a decade in prison before being exonerated!
rascul 4y ago
Where are you asked if you were arrested? I'm curious, since I've only been asked if I was convicted of a crime, so I thought it a bit odd.
- cgriswald 4y ago
  Only about a dozen states ban employer questions about arrest records outright. More states have no restrictions on it at all. Another set of states bans asking about expunged or sealed records, but anything else is fair game. Among the ones who have partial bans they range from "No, unless you run a bank and the arrest was for alleged fraud or bank robbery" to "Basically yes, unless it's a really old arrest and the salary is below a threshold."
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    What seems bizarre is that an employer would care about a mistaken arrest.
    - cgriswald 4y ago
      There's often an implication that an arrest wasn't necessarily mistaken, even if no charges were filed, the charges were dropped, or the person was acquitted. I can see it making a sort of sense in some edges cases. Would you hire a bartender who had been arrested six times on suspicion of DUI just because he was never convicted? I think that would be hard to justify, if my insurance company would even allow it. (So, in my opinion, it's better if I never found out!) However, in general I find the idea distasteful, uncharitable, and un-American. That said, I suspect most employers just like to have as many legal reasons to reject an applicant as possible to make it harder to be sued (irrespective of whether those employers are racists). In Michigan they were more or less explicit that they put their ban in place because black people are being arrested and charged at rates disproportional to eventual convictions versus other groups.
      - DarylZero 4y ago
        DUI example is strange. There are blood alcohol tests, can't really avoid conviction if you fail the test. What's the explanation supposed to be for all the acquittals? The way you say it, it's like you think that more and more acquittals is evidence of guilt, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Repeated arrests would be no accident of chance, but those repeated acquittals would even call into question a conviction in the future. Something is going on to generate false accusations.
outworlder 4y ago
> When people ask, "Have you ever been arrested," the answer will be "Yes." And that's hoping you are a citizen. Because visa renewals (and permanent residency applications, etc) also ask the exact same question. Depending on the reason for the arrest, you can also be denied naturalization or be placed in deportation proceedings without an actual conviction being required. On the basis of your "moral character".
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ActorNightly 4y ago
Unlikely tbh. Unless the starts align the wrong way, generally the way its gonna go is first they will pull your background, and see that there is no criminal record, good credit and a tech job. So the first thing that is going to happen is that you will get a couple of FBI agents probably show up to your door and ask you questions. At which point you could sit down in front of your computer with them, pull up your accounts, and see the evidence of the transfer, all without answering questions with a chance to self incriminate.
- zionic 4y ago
  No lawyer would ever advise anyone to just “casually talk to FBI agents that show up at your door”.
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    Talking =/= answering questions. The advice of "not answering questions" applies mostly for situations where cops are looking for the guilty party, and you don't want to accidentally self incriminate (or if you are guilty, you have a higher chance of getting off) FBI having records of you specifically in relation to a shady website is already past the point of looking for a guilty party - the people they send are specialized in cyber crime, are there to investigate the entirety of the situation with enough information about you already collected from all the sources like ISP logs, background check, and so on, all indicating that you are probably not guilty, as people who actually run sites like that statistically lead very different lives You can refuse to answer questions and let them in, however that has a higher rate of a search warrant, seizure and possibly arrest. Or you could just show them your domain registrars, tell them that you have no idea where it came from, and then look up history that shows the transfer, and that could be the end of your trouble, without any self incriminating statements.
- justrudd 4y ago
  I generally like to think I'm a rather calm individual. It takes quite a bit to get me flustered. But let me tell you, I have had a couple of FBI agents show up at my door. And when I saw those badges, even though I know I've not done anything, I was nervous. Had a legit adrenaline dump. All because my address was the last known address of someone they wanted to speak with. This someone was male, brown hair, about the same height and build as me, etc. As soon as they noticed the similarities, it was not a "sit down in front of your computer and straighten this out" kind of situation. They are there for a reason - to find a criminal. They aren't there to shoot the shit with you and explain "it's all just a big misunderstanding". If the FBI shows up at your door without a warrant, don't let them in and don't speak to them. If they insist, insist on having a lawyer present. Luckily my situation ended up OK. I got a lawyer who specifically had experience with federal law enforcement and had them do all the "straightening up of the situation". But it cost me money and took weeks of what should have been "here is my driver's license, passport, and deed. I am me, not the other guy".

ansible 4y ago

I wish I could upvote this comment more. Yes, this is all fixable... if you are not poor and not rather unlucky. But it will take time and money. Even if you don't lose your job, I'd estimate that it would cost you $20K on the low end for legal fees. Also, if you've done anything else even slightly illegal, and the LEA finds evidence of that when searching your stuff, even though you've been careful and haven't had cause to attract their attention previously... well... that's another whole bunch of trouble.

teakettle42 4y ago
The justice system in the US is so infuriatingly bad, I don’t even know where to start when it comes to fixing it. The class issues are enormous; if you’re wealthy enough to be able to defend yourself, you’ll still only be treated with something only loosely approximating fairness at absolutely best. However, if you can’t afford tens of thousands for an attorney, experts, etc, you’re pretty much fucked. We need to seriously rethink how we treat the accused in this country, from automatic sanctions that are applied to any accused, to how much leeway the police and justice system have to destroy people’s lives before there’s even been any evidence presented of an actual crime.
- macintux 4y ago
  Not to mention the loss of voting rights once you’ve been convicted of a felony. Completely broken.
- rurp 4y ago
  To add to this, it is insane that someone can be locked in jail for years without being convicted for a crime. In some cases innocent people have spent over a decade in prison before being exonerated!

rascul 4y ago

Where are you asked if you were arrested? I'm curious, since I've only been asked if I was convicted of a crime, so I thought it a bit odd.

cgriswald 4y ago
Only about a dozen states ban employer questions about arrest records outright. More states have no restrictions on it at all. Another set of states bans asking about expunged or sealed records, but anything else is fair game. Among the ones who have partial bans they range from "No, unless you run a bank and the arrest was for alleged fraud or bank robbery" to "Basically yes, unless it's a really old arrest and the salary is below a threshold."
- nicoburns 4y ago
  What seems bizarre is that an employer would care about a mistaken arrest.
  - cgriswald 4y ago
    There's often an implication that an arrest wasn't necessarily mistaken, even if no charges were filed, the charges were dropped, or the person was acquitted. I can see it making a sort of sense in some edges cases. Would you hire a bartender who had been arrested six times on suspicion of DUI just because he was never convicted? I think that would be hard to justify, if my insurance company would even allow it. (So, in my opinion, it's better if I never found out!) However, in general I find the idea distasteful, uncharitable, and un-American. That said, I suspect most employers just like to have as many legal reasons to reject an applicant as possible to make it harder to be sued (irrespective of whether those employers are racists). In Michigan they were more or less explicit that they put their ban in place because black people are being arrested and charged at rates disproportional to eventual convictions versus other groups.
    - DarylZero 4y ago
      DUI example is strange. There are blood alcohol tests, can't really avoid conviction if you fail the test. What's the explanation supposed to be for all the acquittals? The way you say it, it's like you think that more and more acquittals is evidence of guilt, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Repeated arrests would be no accident of chance, but those repeated acquittals would even call into question a conviction in the future. Something is going on to generate false accusations.

outworlder 4y ago

> When people ask, "Have you ever been arrested," the answer will be "Yes." And that's hoping you are a citizen. Because visa renewals (and permanent residency applications, etc) also ask the exact same question. Depending on the reason for the arrest, you can also be denied naturalization or be placed in deportation proceedings without an actual conviction being required. On the basis of your "moral character".

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ActorNightly 4y ago

Unlikely tbh. Unless the starts align the wrong way, generally the way its gonna go is first they will pull your background, and see that there is no criminal record, good credit and a tech job. So the first thing that is going to happen is that you will get a couple of FBI agents probably show up to your door and ask you questions. At which point you could sit down in front of your computer with them, pull up your accounts, and see the evidence of the transfer, all without answering questions with a chance to self incriminate.

zionic 4y ago
No lawyer would ever advise anyone to just “casually talk to FBI agents that show up at your door”.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  Talking =/= answering questions. The advice of "not answering questions" applies mostly for situations where cops are looking for the guilty party, and you don't want to accidentally self incriminate (or if you are guilty, you have a higher chance of getting off) FBI having records of you specifically in relation to a shady website is already past the point of looking for a guilty party - the people they send are specialized in cyber crime, are there to investigate the entirety of the situation with enough information about you already collected from all the sources like ISP logs, background check, and so on, all indicating that you are probably not guilty, as people who actually run sites like that statistically lead very different lives You can refuse to answer questions and let them in, however that has a higher rate of a search warrant, seizure and possibly arrest. Or you could just show them your domain registrars, tell them that you have no idea where it came from, and then look up history that shows the transfer, and that could be the end of your trouble, without any self incriminating statements.
justrudd 4y ago
I generally like to think I'm a rather calm individual. It takes quite a bit to get me flustered. But let me tell you, I have had a couple of FBI agents show up at my door. And when I saw those badges, even though I know I've not done anything, I was nervous. Had a legit adrenaline dump. All because my address was the last known address of someone they wanted to speak with. This someone was male, brown hair, about the same height and build as me, etc. As soon as they noticed the similarities, it was not a "sit down in front of your computer and straighten this out" kind of situation. They are there for a reason - to find a criminal. They aren't there to shoot the shit with you and explain "it's all just a big misunderstanding". If the FBI shows up at your door without a warrant, don't let them in and don't speak to them. If they insist, insist on having a lawyer present. Luckily my situation ended up OK. I got a lawyer who specifically had experience with federal law enforcement and had them do all the "straightening up of the situation". But it cost me money and took weeks of what should have been "here is my driver's license, passport, and deed. I am me, not the other guy".