3 ms·

"The desperate attempts of Uber and other app-based labor platforms like it to realize profitability have real consequences: experiments over the years have...u

"The desperate attempts of Uber and other app-based labor platforms like it to realize profitability have real consequences: experiments over the years have...unleashed racist algorithms that discriminate against drivers and riders" While I am no fan of either SoftBank or Uber, this one is a little unfair. The proper standard of comparison for Uber (in this context) is not how much racial bias it has compared to an ideal situation, but how much racial bias it has compared to the taxicab companies it displaced. I am told, by black male coworkers, that the pre-Uber situation was quite a bit worse, and that the presence of Uber (and Lyft) has substantially improved the situation. Again, not defending Uber (or its business model) generally, just saying this particular accusation is lacking some extremely pertinent context.

yieldcrv 4y ago
> I am told, by black male coworkers, that the pre-Uber situation was quite a bit worse, and that the presence of Uber (and Lyft) has substantially improved the situation. That reminds me, during rush hour in Manhattan several years back, I used to have to yell at yellow cab taxi drivers across the street that I was going to another part of [lower] Manhattan. Where I lived. They all assumed I was going to Brooklyn and that they wouldn't be able to get a returning fare there and it could take them an hour or more to get back to an area where there are more likely fares. Any algorithm would match that simple analysis, it is worth reminding that many now-condemned forms of race based discrimination were economically rationalized. So it is therefore not acceptable to give tacit agreement to current race based discrimination that is economically rationalized, "oh phew, its not my skin color they have a problem with - like some racist - its the socioeconomic probability of their own socioeconomic circumstance in this specific situation!" Nope! Not something to accept, and rideshare platforms further nuked their reality from orbit. NYC has other ride hailing issues, I do like the competition that the Softbank-funded ones spurred.
- rossdavidh 4y ago
  All true. I would add that making market rules such that doing the right thing is not economically penalized, and doing the wrong thing is economically penalized, is one of the primary proper purposes of government regulation. Given how heavily regulated the taxi industry was prior to Uber/Lyft, it is all the more disappointing that this and many other injustices persisted. It is bad if an unregulated market is profoundly unjust, and just as unjust if there is some economic gloss over racial bias; it is even worse if the market IS heavily regulated, and things were still that way. If ever there were an industry that deserved to be disrupted, it was this one. Which doesn't mean we couldn't do a lot better than the status quo, of course. And, given the likely economic death spiral that Uber and Lyft are in, we should start working on figuring out what that would be.

yieldcrv 4y ago

> I am told, by black male coworkers, that the pre-Uber situation was quite a bit worse, and that the presence of Uber (and Lyft) has substantially improved the situation. That reminds me, during rush hour in Manhattan several years back, I used to have to yell at yellow cab taxi drivers across the street that I was going to another part of [lower] Manhattan. Where I lived. They all assumed I was going to Brooklyn and that they wouldn't be able to get a returning fare there and it could take them an hour or more to get back to an area where there are more likely fares. Any algorithm would match that simple analysis, it is worth reminding that many now-condemned forms of race based discrimination were economically rationalized. So it is therefore not acceptable to give tacit agreement to current race based discrimination that is economically rationalized, "oh phew, its not my skin color they have a problem with - like some racist - its the socioeconomic probability of their own socioeconomic circumstance in this specific situation!" Nope! Not something to accept, and rideshare platforms further nuked their reality from orbit. NYC has other ride hailing issues, I do like the competition that the Softbank-funded ones spurred.

rossdavidh 4y ago
All true. I would add that making market rules such that doing the right thing is not economically penalized, and doing the wrong thing is economically penalized, is one of the primary proper purposes of government regulation. Given how heavily regulated the taxi industry was prior to Uber/Lyft, it is all the more disappointing that this and many other injustices persisted. It is bad if an unregulated market is profoundly unjust, and just as unjust if there is some economic gloss over racial bias; it is even worse if the market IS heavily regulated, and things were still that way. If ever there were an industry that deserved to be disrupted, it was this one. Which doesn't mean we couldn't do a lot better than the status quo, of course. And, given the likely economic death spiral that Uber and Lyft are in, we should start working on figuring out what that would be.