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> but there's just something about today's Internet and a lot of the overwhelming amount of technology that just isn't fun or memorable. That's right -- modern

> but there's just something about today's Internet and a lot of the overwhelming amount of technology that just isn't fun or memorable. That's right -- modern age stuff isn't as _hackable_. Especially not at the hardware level. You get an Alexa or a mobile phone or a camera, it's all just a chip on a PCB in a plastic case, not intended to be fiddled with by anybody (not the owner, not some repair show, literally _nobody_) just to be thrown away after a year or two and replaced by a new one. It's all very sad. There is still some software component to things that's hackable, but even that's harder to do. In the past you turned on your C64 and could start write away code, average Joe Teenager needs to install some IDE and pull in hundreds of NPM dependencies from shady places just to show a hello world. Unless daddy/mommy gave them a Linux box, then the story is different.

duckmysick 4y ago
> In the past you turned on your C64 and could start write away code, average Joe Teenager needs to install some IDE and pull in hundreds of NPM dependencies from shady places just to show a hello world. Or he could open a console in his web browser.
- pwg 4y ago
  Or average Joe Teenager installs a Linux distribution, which then provides bash, perl, awk, Python, C, C++, often Tcl/Tk, etc. and usually includes one or more editors for creating source files. All without "pull[ing] in hundreds of NPM dependencies from shady places"
  - wildmanx 4y ago
    That's a lot of work just to show a "hello world". The point was that it's hard to do it with the thing you already have. Of course it's easier if you just get a new thing -- which installing a new OS corresponds to in the software world.
- hyperdimension 4y ago
  What about the kids in school districts that issue locked-down Chromebooks? They probably can't even do that! I, for one, learned how to bcdedit my way into booting from a .vhd on my school-issued laptop. And how to SSH tunnel on port 443 to get past the proxy. How LSPs worked on Windows. Messing around is how kids get their start in computers, and I couldn't agree with the parent comment more.
  - wildmanx 4y ago
    > Messing around is how kids get their start in computers And, sadly, they tend to get punished for it, once it's found out.
bluGill 4y ago
In the past you couldn't upgrade the memory in your C64, now you can open the case on any desktop and put in different RAM. Laptops are sometimes upgradable as well. The raspberry pi even comes as a bare board for hacking on. The kinds of hacking you can do today are different, but things are just as hackable if you want. If you don't want to hack, just get things done, then today things are much better, computers mostly just work for people who need to get things done.

duckmysick 4y ago

> In the past you turned on your C64 and could start write away code, average Joe Teenager needs to install some IDE and pull in hundreds of NPM dependencies from shady places just to show a hello world. Or he could open a console in his web browser.

pwg 4y ago
Or average Joe Teenager installs a Linux distribution, which then provides bash, perl, awk, Python, C, C++, often Tcl/Tk, etc. and usually includes one or more editors for creating source files. All without "pull[ing] in hundreds of NPM dependencies from shady places"
- wildmanx 4y ago
  That's a lot of work just to show a "hello world". The point was that it's hard to do it with the thing you already have. Of course it's easier if you just get a new thing -- which installing a new OS corresponds to in the software world.
hyperdimension 4y ago
What about the kids in school districts that issue locked-down Chromebooks? They probably can't even do that! I, for one, learned how to bcdedit my way into booting from a .vhd on my school-issued laptop. And how to SSH tunnel on port 443 to get past the proxy. How LSPs worked on Windows. Messing around is how kids get their start in computers, and I couldn't agree with the parent comment more.
- wildmanx 4y ago
  > Messing around is how kids get their start in computers And, sadly, they tend to get punished for it, once it's found out.

bluGill 4y ago

In the past you couldn't upgrade the memory in your C64, now you can open the case on any desktop and put in different RAM. Laptops are sometimes upgradable as well. The raspberry pi even comes as a bare board for hacking on. The kinds of hacking you can do today are different, but things are just as hackable if you want. If you don't want to hack, just get things done, then today things are much better, computers mostly just work for people who need to get things done.