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This is the paradox of centralization, isn't it -- we can't run our own email servers anymore, because we can't send email to the major providers. We can't run

This is the paradox of centralization, isn't it -- we can't run our own email servers anymore, because we can't send email to the major providers. We can't run our websites without engaging with CAs because HTTPS is a requirement. We won't be able to run our own platforms, because without the protection of a well-resourced middleman like Cloudflare to stay up 24/7 mitigating our issues, the overcomplexified and permanently insecure state of modern software would be intolerable.

jacquesm 4y ago
Indeed it is. And I think this is the reason the centralization/decentralization pendulum is there in the first place. But in the past the return (decentralization) of that pendulum was driven by major advances in technology, this time around that won't be happening and absent another driver we may be more or less stuck.
dgb23 4y ago
To expand on the irony: All of the things you mentioned are deemed necessary, because the Internet is inherently open and decentralized. Email needs protection against spam and phishing, HTTPS protects against man in the middle attacks and eavesdropping, Cloudflare have services that protect against DDoS attacks and to provide read scale among other things. I don't think the Internet was envisioned as a cyber war zone.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > I don't think the Internet was envisioned as a cyber war zone. It was seen as a communications tool during a war, not as the battleground itself...
nix23 4y ago
>we can't run our own email servers anymore, because we can't send email to the major providers. We can't run our websites without engaging with CAs because HTTPS is a I call it BS, i made many many emailservers, and my customers have no problem's with sending to gmail/hotmail etc.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  You either got incredibly lucky, or are talking about experiences in the (relatively distant) past. I say this as someone who also used to run email servers, and long since gave up on it.
  - nix23 4y ago
    Or maybe you don't do it right. SPF (with p=reject), DMARK, DKIM, correct reverse DNS entry, Certs. And for google and hotmail a site-verification code <- This is what you have NOT done right? Or maybe it's really just luck for the +50 Email-Servers, who knows right?

jacquesm 4y ago

Indeed it is. And I think this is the reason the centralization/decentralization pendulum is there in the first place. But in the past the return (decentralization) of that pendulum was driven by major advances in technology, this time around that won't be happening and absent another driver we may be more or less stuck.

dgb23 4y ago

To expand on the irony: All of the things you mentioned are deemed necessary, because the Internet is inherently open and decentralized. Email needs protection against spam and phishing, HTTPS protects against man in the middle attacks and eavesdropping, Cloudflare have services that protect against DDoS attacks and to provide read scale among other things. I don't think the Internet was envisioned as a cyber war zone.

jacquesm 4y ago
> I don't think the Internet was envisioned as a cyber war zone. It was seen as a communications tool during a war, not as the battleground itself...

nix23 4y ago

>we can't run our own email servers anymore, because we can't send email to the major providers. We can't run our websites without engaging with CAs because HTTPS is a I call it BS, i made many many emailservers, and my customers have no problem's with sending to gmail/hotmail etc.

jaywalk 4y ago
You either got incredibly lucky, or are talking about experiences in the (relatively distant) past. I say this as someone who also used to run email servers, and long since gave up on it.
- nix23 4y ago
  Or maybe you don't do it right. SPF (with p=reject), DMARK, DKIM, correct reverse DNS entry, Certs. And for google and hotmail a site-verification code <- This is what you have NOT done right? Or maybe it's really just luck for the +50 Email-Servers, who knows right?