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There's gonna be a lot more of this, both voluntarily and involuntarily, as we continue to automate. This isn't bad, it's just different. We'll get UBI and rob

There's gonna be a lot more of this, both voluntarily and involuntarily, as we continue to automate. This isn't bad, it's just different. We'll get UBI and robots eventually and this will be the status quo everywhere.

enqk 4y ago
I don't understand how to reconcile those like you who claim we are going to continue automating and adding more machines vs those who say that we have to reduce our energy expenditures because they come from extraction of fossil fuels that are either going to end up being too costly to us
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Energy expenditure shouldn't be wasted on frivolity and pyramid schemes like Bitcoin, first. Second, energy usage will increase - electricity usage in particular - in the coming decades. That doesn't have to come from fossil fuels. Nuclear, wind, solar and (to a lesser extent) hydro are all green, renewable, non-carbon energy sources that can easily get us everything we need. Ontario already does it! [1] [1] https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-ontario.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/pr...
baxtr 4y ago
We already have an army of robots. They work in data centers. PS: I think this is not a stupid analogy, but instead helps to explain why the shift won't be sudden but steady, and it has already started a while back. It is a continuous development.
- MonkeyClub 4y ago
  You're on point, I think. A thing doesn't need to look like R2D2 to be a robot, and our robots have already replaced a big chunk of human work: filing, analyzing, cataloguing, calculating, computing, plus all that sweet sweet business logic. I see a parallel in the rise of cuneiform and silicon: both find their primary application in optimizing bureaucracies.
Ambolia 4y ago
Western countries are getting a lot of free stuff from China through financial games, if that financial economy disappears, I wonder how much of that free automatic stuff is actually free and actually automatic.
- bushbaba 4y ago
  If that ends, we could very well see a very drastic wage price spiral.
  - Ambolia 4y ago
    And a political crisis, a lot of people who build things with their hands and that have been "deplorables" for the last few years would start earning a lot of money and becoming much more important. And a lot of people that live in certain cities and hold certain jobs would lose a lot of weight in society. We all saw how bad things got in Canada with the trucker protests, things would be more volatile politically if there was a higher percentage of jobs in the economy that held the same kind of disruptive power as the truckers.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  My understanding is that the cost of making things in the US is roughly the same as China. In China labor is cheap but energy is expensive, whereas in the US labor is expensive but energy is cheap.
soco 4y ago
From what I can see for the time being, the profits of that automation don't really go into people's pockets. The Big Corporation is successfully paying less and less taxes...
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Yes, we will need a new social contract in the future.

enqk 4y ago

I don't understand how to reconcile those like you who claim we are going to continue automating and adding more machines vs those who say that we have to reduce our energy expenditures because they come from extraction of fossil fuels that are either going to end up being too costly to us

arcticbull 4y ago
Energy expenditure shouldn't be wasted on frivolity and pyramid schemes like Bitcoin, first. Second, energy usage will increase - electricity usage in particular - in the coming decades. That doesn't have to come from fossil fuels. Nuclear, wind, solar and (to a lesser extent) hydro are all green, renewable, non-carbon energy sources that can easily get us everything we need. Ontario already does it! [1] [1] https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-ontario.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/pr...

baxtr 4y ago

We already have an army of robots. They work in data centers. PS: I think this is not a stupid analogy, but instead helps to explain why the shift won't be sudden but steady, and it has already started a while back. It is a continuous development.

MonkeyClub 4y ago
You're on point, I think. A thing doesn't need to look like R2D2 to be a robot, and our robots have already replaced a big chunk of human work: filing, analyzing, cataloguing, calculating, computing, plus all that sweet sweet business logic. I see a parallel in the rise of cuneiform and silicon: both find their primary application in optimizing bureaucracies.

Ambolia 4y ago

Western countries are getting a lot of free stuff from China through financial games, if that financial economy disappears, I wonder how much of that free automatic stuff is actually free and actually automatic.

bushbaba 4y ago
If that ends, we could very well see a very drastic wage price spiral.
- Ambolia 4y ago
  And a political crisis, a lot of people who build things with their hands and that have been "deplorables" for the last few years would start earning a lot of money and becoming much more important. And a lot of people that live in certain cities and hold certain jobs would lose a lot of weight in society. We all saw how bad things got in Canada with the trucker protests, things would be more volatile politically if there was a higher percentage of jobs in the economy that held the same kind of disruptive power as the truckers.
arcticbull 4y ago
My understanding is that the cost of making things in the US is roughly the same as China. In China labor is cheap but energy is expensive, whereas in the US labor is expensive but energy is cheap.

soco 4y ago

From what I can see for the time being, the profits of that automation don't really go into people's pockets. The Big Corporation is successfully paying less and less taxes...

arcticbull 4y ago
Yes, we will need a new social contract in the future.