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Calling oneself by a caste name such as a Brahmin is "casteist", it's tautological. A college degree is earned, a Brahmin caste status is inherited much like t

Calling oneself by a caste name such as a Brahmin is "casteist", it's tautological. A college degree is earned, a Brahmin caste status is inherited much like the klan claiming supreme status by blood.

rajup 4y ago
Well, most religions are inherited and (as of today at least) identifying as religious does not automatically make one <insert-favorite-identity>-ist.
- senthil_rajasek 4y ago
  Most religions allow conversions but you can never convert into a Brahmin. It's only inherited.
- devnonymous 4y ago
  How did religion enter the conversation? Are you saying that you'd stop being a Hindu if you give up your Brahmin identity?
  - 1sembiyan 4y ago
    To the Brahmin, wearing the thread comes with religious obligations. Committing oneself to those religious obligations needn’t have anything to do other castes. > Are you saying that you'd stop being a Hindu if you give up your Brahmin identity? Surely there are many kinds of Hindus? To each community what’s important is different? And an answer to this question also depends on how the individual makes sense of his religion? While jati as a feature of the Indian landscape has persisted for a few thousand years, I believe jati and religion/theology are orthogonal. You can belong to caste x and any religion y in the sub-continent. But as it happens, when one talks about being anti-caste today many times it is to call out and disparage one’s Hindu identity. This makes any conversion about caste extremely muddled, with folks arguing past each other.
    - devnonymous 4y ago
      > I believe jati and religion/theology are orthogonal. You can belong to caste x and any religion y in the sub-continent. My comment was in response to the parent who brought in the word religion into the discussion, as some means of justification of inheriting the religion of their parent is the same as inheriting the caste. ...and now here you claim that they are orthogonal. How very convenient. This is exactly the kind of deflection used to 'muddle' the conversation, as you put it. If they are orthogonal, why does caste still even persist ? Why is the notion of caste still held on to ? If one can follow the hindu religion without identifying with caste why do Indian Hindus still hold on to their caste identity ? It is easy to say the conversations get 'muddled' without bothering to learn why the thing under discussion even exists !! None of this is new. Dr. B.R. Ambedkar wrote about this decades ago and yet, here we are, with google claiming the same thing you are -- that talking about caste somehow ends up being Hinduphobic.
      - 1sembiyan 4y ago
        > and now here you claim that they are orthogonal. How very convenient. By that I meant for some group and people jati intersects with particular theologies and for others it doesn’t. What does that say about jati and theology? > If they are orthogonal, why does caste still even persist ? Why is the notion of caste still held on to ? Million dollar question. Why do some identities persist and others don’t? For jati, endogamy plays a significant role and it will disappear with the current out marriage rate in a century (that’s of course being optimistic). Making it about Hinduism or Brahmins will not get rid of jati. TN has the lowest ICM in the country despite a 100 years of non-Brahmin movement. > It is easy to say the conversations get 'muddled' without bothering to learn why the thing under discussion even exists !! Lol, let’s just say we read different things about the subject or even read the same things and come to different conclusions. > that talking about caste somehow ends up being Hinduphobic. If it ends up disparaging people with Hindu religious identity, one could argue its Hinduphobic (which happens sometimes with these conversations).
      - ridiculous_leke 4y ago
        > If they are orthogonal, why does caste still even persist ? Why is the notion of caste still held on to ? If one can follow the hindu religion without identifying with caste why do Indian Hindus still hold on to their caste identity ? Social status for some and Reservation benefits for others.
rajup 4y ago
Godwin’s law strikes again. All Brahmins are nazis. Excellent.
samarthr1 4y ago
But do i not have the right to bear the name of my forebears? Just because I bear a name commonly used by people of my community, does not make me complicit in the ills of the community I belong to. Or are you also judging a person by their surname?
- senthil_rajasek 4y ago
  >do i not have the right to bear the name of my forebears? Why should this be a right? Inherited "wealth" is not considered a unrestricted right in many societies. The wealth tax is a great example of how society regulates "concentration of power" through inherited wealth. Caste based inheritance of wealth has no such regulation.

rajup 4y ago

Well, most religions are inherited and (as of today at least) identifying as religious does not automatically make one <insert-favorite-identity>-ist.

senthil_rajasek 4y ago
Most religions allow conversions but you can never convert into a Brahmin. It's only inherited.
devnonymous 4y ago
How did religion enter the conversation? Are you saying that you'd stop being a Hindu if you give up your Brahmin identity?
- 1sembiyan 4y ago
  To the Brahmin, wearing the thread comes with religious obligations. Committing oneself to those religious obligations needn’t have anything to do other castes. > Are you saying that you'd stop being a Hindu if you give up your Brahmin identity? Surely there are many kinds of Hindus? To each community what’s important is different? And an answer to this question also depends on how the individual makes sense of his religion? While jati as a feature of the Indian landscape has persisted for a few thousand years, I believe jati and religion/theology are orthogonal. You can belong to caste x and any religion y in the sub-continent. But as it happens, when one talks about being anti-caste today many times it is to call out and disparage one’s Hindu identity. This makes any conversion about caste extremely muddled, with folks arguing past each other.
  - devnonymous 4y ago
    > I believe jati and religion/theology are orthogonal. You can belong to caste x and any religion y in the sub-continent. My comment was in response to the parent who brought in the word religion into the discussion, as some means of justification of inheriting the religion of their parent is the same as inheriting the caste. ...and now here you claim that they are orthogonal. How very convenient. This is exactly the kind of deflection used to 'muddle' the conversation, as you put it. If they are orthogonal, why does caste still even persist ? Why is the notion of caste still held on to ? If one can follow the hindu religion without identifying with caste why do Indian Hindus still hold on to their caste identity ? It is easy to say the conversations get 'muddled' without bothering to learn why the thing under discussion even exists !! None of this is new. Dr. B.R. Ambedkar wrote about this decades ago and yet, here we are, with google claiming the same thing you are -- that talking about caste somehow ends up being Hinduphobic.
    - 1sembiyan 4y ago
      > and now here you claim that they are orthogonal. How very convenient. By that I meant for some group and people jati intersects with particular theologies and for others it doesn’t. What does that say about jati and theology? > If they are orthogonal, why does caste still even persist ? Why is the notion of caste still held on to ? Million dollar question. Why do some identities persist and others don’t? For jati, endogamy plays a significant role and it will disappear with the current out marriage rate in a century (that’s of course being optimistic). Making it about Hinduism or Brahmins will not get rid of jati. TN has the lowest ICM in the country despite a 100 years of non-Brahmin movement. > It is easy to say the conversations get 'muddled' without bothering to learn why the thing under discussion even exists !! Lol, let’s just say we read different things about the subject or even read the same things and come to different conclusions. > that talking about caste somehow ends up being Hinduphobic. If it ends up disparaging people with Hindu religious identity, one could argue its Hinduphobic (which happens sometimes with these conversations).
    - ridiculous_leke 4y ago
      > If they are orthogonal, why does caste still even persist ? Why is the notion of caste still held on to ? If one can follow the hindu religion without identifying with caste why do Indian Hindus still hold on to their caste identity ? Social status for some and Reservation benefits for others.

rajup 4y ago

Godwin’s law strikes again. All Brahmins are nazis. Excellent.

samarthr1 4y ago

But do i not have the right to bear the name of my forebears? Just because I bear a name commonly used by people of my community, does not make me complicit in the ills of the community I belong to. Or are you also judging a person by their surname?

senthil_rajasek 4y ago
>do i not have the right to bear the name of my forebears? Why should this be a right? Inherited "wealth" is not considered a unrestricted right in many societies. The wealth tax is a great example of how society regulates "concentration of power" through inherited wealth. Caste based inheritance of wealth has no such regulation.