4 ms·

Yeah, I was too till I tried it. Thousands of miles of instant, perfect shifts at the light touch of a button with no adjusting, no cable clutter, no cleaning,

Yeah, I was too till I tried it. Thousands of miles of instant, perfect shifts at the light touch of a button with no adjusting, no cable clutter, no cleaning, etc. is very nice. It would all be worthless if the electronic shifters were in the least bit unreliable but the two systems I’ve used have both been rock solid. Electronic shifting systems even add reliability vs. mechanical ones by allowing a knock to temporarily displace the derailleur, which the motor will then fix nearly instantly, rather than breaking/bending while futility trying to resist a high force.

ephimetheus 4y ago
Right. A guy I know had this fail while riding up a mountain (I believe he said the battery died) and he could not change gears at all even though he tried. He effectively had to limp his bike home because he was stuck in the gear he had riding uphill. Took him half a day or so rather than an hour. I’m certainly not a Luddite but this doesn’t seem to be a worthwhile trade off for me.
- multjoy 4y ago
  The batteries last a long time, they don't just give up unless you forget to charge them (and we're only talking about a couple of hours). This would be like someone running out of fuel in a car. A known limitation which is completely avoidable.
  - lloeki 4y ago
    The good thing with my current bike is that it never runs out of fuel, by design. I can pick it up anytime and it just works, it was so 10 years ago when I acquired it, and it'll be so 10 years down the road. I have a Garmin Forerunner 735XT watch and it needs charging every 15 days, which is better than any "true" smartwatch out there. At some point in the distant-but-not-so-much future the battery will flat out die and there will be no replacement part. The experience from my mechanical watch is entirely different: it keeps on ticking as I move around, and the thing will probably end up surviving me. Going from zero to non-zero - whatever the value of non-zero is - is non-negligible mental weight. Zero is a freeing experience.
    - multjoy 4y ago
      Although with 20 years of use, those gear cables are likely to fail. Presumably you do things like lube the chain, inspect your tyres, keep them inflated to the correct level?
  - ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
    I've had a couple of Di2 batteries fail. One of them went suddenly and I had to grab a train to get home. The other one lost capacity quite quickly, so I'd have to charge it once a week until it got so bad I needed to charge it fully each day until I swapped in a new one.
- kmonsen 4y ago
  So when that happens only the back or front runs out of battery. Usually it will be the back and you just swap them and ride home without being able the shift on the front.
  - ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
    Back and front are powered by the same battery which typically lives in the seat post. When the battery gets too low, the front shifts are disabled first as they take more juice.
    - kmonsen 4y ago
      Not on mine, SRAM etap, there is a small rechargeable battery in the front and back. They are the same so can be swapped. I really, really like it. I know I paid way too much for that bike but it is amazing and I can really feel the difference in a way I never could before.
- kuschku 4y ago
  Why aren’t these bikes using a hub generator to produce the necessary energy to automatically recharge the batteries for the bike computer and shifting motors? Or am I missing something?
  - wl 4y ago
    Di2 is mostly popular among the performance cycling set who likes to go fast. The ~5% drivetrain power loss you'd get from a dynamo isn't attractive in that market. Also, Di2 requires charging every couple of months. It just isn't worth it. I have seen some randonneuring bikes with a dynamo with USB charging for topping up the bike computer and the like. Commuting and utility bikes tend to just use the dynamo for lights.
    - kuschku 4y ago
      That’s a market that’s entirely foreign to me, I use my bicycle entirely for commuting, buying groceries, etc so I’ve got a hub dynamo powering the lights. I’m honestly surprised that there’s no super-low-power hub dynamo for this segment, but if it’s all people using bicycles for planned trips, they can take charging into account when planning trips.
_flux 4y ago
Surely two cables for transmitting the control signal would keep most of these benefits while only needing one set of batteries in the system?
- Matthias247 4y ago
  That’s pretty close to the shimano system. Most components are connected via a power cables to a central battery. The only full wireless component are the shifters on handlebars. Sram is fully wireless, and has batteries on each component. Both systems have their set of pros: less batteries and central charging vs less installation effort due to no cables.
- gavanm 4y ago
  Although I don't have a wireless groupset on my bicycle, I'm attracted to the idea of dual batteries (like in the SRAM system) - at least that way if you forget to charge a battery - you can swap them between front and rear so you have a slightly better ability to limp home.
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    With Di2 it kind of does the same thing, when your battery is getting low the front derailleur will stop working. Not sure how many shifts that leaves you at the back though so you might still be in trouble if you’re far from home.
    - wl 4y ago
      The front derailleur stops working at a nominal 10% charge. You'll have plenty of rear shifting left on all but the longest rides. That being said, it's really easy to avoid the battery getting that low. It lasts months under normal conditions. And your head unit will tell you when the battery gets low. Except Hammerhead units won't get that warning anymore? #thanksshimano.
SyzygistSix 4y ago
All road miles or are there any dirt road miles?

ephimetheus 4y ago

Right. A guy I know had this fail while riding up a mountain (I believe he said the battery died) and he could not change gears at all even though he tried. He effectively had to limp his bike home because he was stuck in the gear he had riding uphill. Took him half a day or so rather than an hour. I’m certainly not a Luddite but this doesn’t seem to be a worthwhile trade off for me.

multjoy 4y ago
The batteries last a long time, they don't just give up unless you forget to charge them (and we're only talking about a couple of hours). This would be like someone running out of fuel in a car. A known limitation which is completely avoidable.
- lloeki 4y ago
  The good thing with my current bike is that it never runs out of fuel, by design. I can pick it up anytime and it just works, it was so 10 years ago when I acquired it, and it'll be so 10 years down the road. I have a Garmin Forerunner 735XT watch and it needs charging every 15 days, which is better than any "true" smartwatch out there. At some point in the distant-but-not-so-much future the battery will flat out die and there will be no replacement part. The experience from my mechanical watch is entirely different: it keeps on ticking as I move around, and the thing will probably end up surviving me. Going from zero to non-zero - whatever the value of non-zero is - is non-negligible mental weight. Zero is a freeing experience.
  - multjoy 4y ago
    Although with 20 years of use, those gear cables are likely to fail. Presumably you do things like lube the chain, inspect your tyres, keep them inflated to the correct level?
- ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
  I've had a couple of Di2 batteries fail. One of them went suddenly and I had to grab a train to get home. The other one lost capacity quite quickly, so I'd have to charge it once a week until it got so bad I needed to charge it fully each day until I swapped in a new one.
kmonsen 4y ago
So when that happens only the back or front runs out of battery. Usually it will be the back and you just swap them and ride home without being able the shift on the front.
- ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
  Back and front are powered by the same battery which typically lives in the seat post. When the battery gets too low, the front shifts are disabled first as they take more juice.
  - kmonsen 4y ago
    Not on mine, SRAM etap, there is a small rechargeable battery in the front and back. They are the same so can be swapped. I really, really like it. I know I paid way too much for that bike but it is amazing and I can really feel the difference in a way I never could before.
kuschku 4y ago
Why aren’t these bikes using a hub generator to produce the necessary energy to automatically recharge the batteries for the bike computer and shifting motors? Or am I missing something?
- wl 4y ago
  Di2 is mostly popular among the performance cycling set who likes to go fast. The ~5% drivetrain power loss you'd get from a dynamo isn't attractive in that market. Also, Di2 requires charging every couple of months. It just isn't worth it. I have seen some randonneuring bikes with a dynamo with USB charging for topping up the bike computer and the like. Commuting and utility bikes tend to just use the dynamo for lights.
  - kuschku 4y ago
    That’s a market that’s entirely foreign to me, I use my bicycle entirely for commuting, buying groceries, etc so I’ve got a hub dynamo powering the lights. I’m honestly surprised that there’s no super-low-power hub dynamo for this segment, but if it’s all people using bicycles for planned trips, they can take charging into account when planning trips.

_flux 4y ago

Surely two cables for transmitting the control signal would keep most of these benefits while only needing one set of batteries in the system?

Matthias247 4y ago
That’s pretty close to the shimano system. Most components are connected via a power cables to a central battery. The only full wireless component are the shifters on handlebars. Sram is fully wireless, and has batteries on each component. Both systems have their set of pros: less batteries and central charging vs less installation effort due to no cables.
gavanm 4y ago
Although I don't have a wireless groupset on my bicycle, I'm attracted to the idea of dual batteries (like in the SRAM system) - at least that way if you forget to charge a battery - you can swap them between front and rear so you have a slightly better ability to limp home.
- mathieuh 4y ago
  With Di2 it kind of does the same thing, when your battery is getting low the front derailleur will stop working. Not sure how many shifts that leaves you at the back though so you might still be in trouble if you’re far from home.
  - wl 4y ago
    The front derailleur stops working at a nominal 10% charge. You'll have plenty of rear shifting left on all but the longest rides. That being said, it's really easy to avoid the battery getting that low. It lasts months under normal conditions. And your head unit will tell you when the battery gets low. Except Hammerhead units won't get that warning anymore? #thanksshimano.

SyzygistSix 4y ago

All road miles or are there any dirt road miles?