3 ms·

The (unfortunate) reality is that the quality of software engineers outside the major tech hubs even in the US is relatively poor—-and it gets worse abroad. Oth

by sidlls 4y ago

The (unfortunate) reality is that the quality of software engineers outside the major tech hubs even in the US is relatively poor—-and it gets worse abroad. Other countries’ talents tend to migrate to these tech hubs, leaving their home countries with even more relatively poor talent. This is going to be another decade resembling the outsourcing movement that occurred in the 2000s: and it will have a similar outcome. That outcome being that paying lower wages yields worse results and a huge backlash.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Outsourcing in the 2000s was difficult, technologically. Zoom meetings didn't exist. Github didn't exist. Continuous integration and automated testing was not really a thing. There was nothing like Slack. Screen sharing was difficult if not effectively impossible. Remote work is much more practical today, and the pandemic gave it a huge turbo-boost. I don't think we'll see a replay of oursourcing from 20 years ago (which was generally a debacle, no argument).
- sidlls 4y ago
  No talented engineer is going to look at a wage that is 2-3x locally in relatively poor conditions (crowding, sanitary, etc.) and think it’s a better deal than what they can get by emigrating. It might not be as bad as the outsourcing debacle, but it’s not going to be much different.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Having a multiple of the prevailing income locally offers the chance to buy your way out of some of the inconveniences of crowded cities. In a lot of cases, the salaries for an SWE2/SWE3 aren’t 2-3x the median but 5-10x the local median income.
    - sidlls 4y ago
      Yes, but you’re still living in conditions that are relatively poor compared to what you can get in developed countries (not just western/white ones). And these people aren’t ignorant or stupid: there’s a reason they emigrate in the numbers they do.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    2-3x isn't actually bad level when the prices are also lower. Also the place with highest compensation sounds from discussion here have both crowding as in having room mates and sanitary issues with all of the issues of homelessness around... And if we are talking about developing areas, the dev pay is already above median and being much higher will afford quite a good living conditions, away from all problems.
sokoloff 4y ago
Is this “relatively poor talent” already working as software engineers? If so, this change will reallocate which companies are employing them, but until it attracts people to the field who wouldn’t have otherwise entered it, it doesn’t seem like it will change the aggregate much.

by sidlls 4y ago

SoftTalker 4y ago

Outsourcing in the 2000s was difficult, technologically. Zoom meetings didn't exist. Github didn't exist. Continuous integration and automated testing was not really a thing. There was nothing like Slack. Screen sharing was difficult if not effectively impossible. Remote work is much more practical today, and the pandemic gave it a huge turbo-boost. I don't think we'll see a replay of oursourcing from 20 years ago (which was generally a debacle, no argument).

sidlls 4y ago
No talented engineer is going to look at a wage that is 2-3x locally in relatively poor conditions (crowding, sanitary, etc.) and think it’s a better deal than what they can get by emigrating. It might not be as bad as the outsourcing debacle, but it’s not going to be much different.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Having a multiple of the prevailing income locally offers the chance to buy your way out of some of the inconveniences of crowded cities. In a lot of cases, the salaries for an SWE2/SWE3 aren’t 2-3x the median but 5-10x the local median income.
  - sidlls 4y ago
    Yes, but you’re still living in conditions that are relatively poor compared to what you can get in developed countries (not just western/white ones). And these people aren’t ignorant or stupid: there’s a reason they emigrate in the numbers they do.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  2-3x isn't actually bad level when the prices are also lower. Also the place with highest compensation sounds from discussion here have both crowding as in having room mates and sanitary issues with all of the issues of homelessness around... And if we are talking about developing areas, the dev pay is already above median and being much higher will afford quite a good living conditions, away from all problems.

sokoloff 4y ago

Is this “relatively poor talent” already working as software engineers? If so, this change will reallocate which companies are employing them, but until it attracts people to the field who wouldn’t have otherwise entered it, it doesn’t seem like it will change the aggregate much.