14 ms·

With how far away from academics most college admissions have strayed, I wonder whether we will see a new round of institutions founded to actually do academics

With how far away from academics most college admissions have strayed, I wonder whether we will see a new round of institutions founded to actually do academics.

WalterGR 4y ago
> With how far away from academics most college admissions have strayed How far is that?
- cato_the_elder 4y ago
  https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20180623_USC932_0.png https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e...
  - WalterGR 4y ago
    Looking at the heading of the graphic, it's just Harvard. I want to know "how far away from academics most college admissions have strayed". What even is that chart supposed to demonstrate?
    - cato_the_elder 4y ago
      The data is due to a lawsuit against Harvard, and I'm not aware of comparable data for other universities. But do you think Harvard is unique in that regard? Probably not. > What even is that chart supposed to demonstrate? The extent of affirmative action?
    - car_analogy 4y ago
      > it's just Harvard Since other colleges mouth the same platitudes about the benefits of diversity and the systemic racism they must atone for, Occam's razor demands we assume their admissions are similar unless proven otherwise.
      - WalterGR 4y ago
        That's not how evidence works.
        cato_the_elder 4y ago
        That's not how fruitful discussions work.
        WalterGR 4y ago
        If we disagree on what fundamental concepts such as "evidence" and "assertion" mean, and disagree on how burden of proof works, then we wouldn't be having a discussion so much as writing words at each other. Have a good day / night.
        car_analogy 4y ago
        You'd like your assertion to be assumed true, and mine to be assumed false until proven beyond reasonable doubt?
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  Quite far, as the folks who replied below have demonstrated. College admissions today have almost nothing to do with academics, and once enrolled, the programs themselves are as much about grievance and political nonsense as they are about learning. We started with this idea that everyone should go to college to learn useful knowledge and skills, but ended up with just a huge population going to these expensive institutions just to party and protest. Now that college doesn't teach things of any value, we are in need of new institutions that do what college was meant to do.
  - WalterGR 4y ago
    > Quite far, as the folks who replied below have demonstrated. With a single infographic about Harvard? No. Nothing in your comment rises above the level of a hyperbolic rant about - given your lack of citations and mind-bogglingly loose definition of "demonstrate" - something you don't seem to actually believe.
    - cato_the_elder 4y ago
      Here's another chart which I think is evidence in the direction of other major universities [1] engaging in a similar extent of affirmative action: https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/2015/09/articles/body/20151003_FBC019.png https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imageca... The comparison with Caltech (besides the population of college-aged Asisan-Amercians) is because in California, due to Proposition 209 [2], public universities are legally prohibited from using direct racial criteria in admissions. [1]: Brown, Yale, Penn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Princeton, and Columbia [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_209 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_20...

With how far away from academics most college admissions have strayed, I wonder whether we will see a new round of institutions founded to actually do academics.

WalterGR 4y ago

> With how far away from academics most college admissions have strayed How far is that?

cato_the_elder 4y ago
https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20180623_USC932_0.png https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e...
- WalterGR 4y ago
  Looking at the heading of the graphic, it's just Harvard. I want to know "how far away from academics most college admissions have strayed". What even is that chart supposed to demonstrate?
  - cato_the_elder 4y ago
    The data is due to a lawsuit against Harvard, and I'm not aware of comparable data for other universities. But do you think Harvard is unique in that regard? Probably not. > What even is that chart supposed to demonstrate? The extent of affirmative action?
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    > it's just Harvard Since other colleges mouth the same platitudes about the benefits of diversity and the systemic racism they must atone for, Occam's razor demands we assume their admissions are similar unless proven otherwise.
    - WalterGR 4y ago
      That's not how evidence works.
      - cato_the_elder 4y ago
        That's not how fruitful discussions work.
        WalterGR 4y ago
        If we disagree on what fundamental concepts such as "evidence" and "assertion" mean, and disagree on how burden of proof works, then we wouldn't be having a discussion so much as writing words at each other. Have a good day / night.
      - car_analogy 4y ago
        You'd like your assertion to be assumed true, and mine to be assumed false until proven beyond reasonable doubt?
codefreeordie 4y ago
Quite far, as the folks who replied below have demonstrated. College admissions today have almost nothing to do with academics, and once enrolled, the programs themselves are as much about grievance and political nonsense as they are about learning. We started with this idea that everyone should go to college to learn useful knowledge and skills, but ended up with just a huge population going to these expensive institutions just to party and protest. Now that college doesn't teach things of any value, we are in need of new institutions that do what college was meant to do.
- WalterGR 4y ago
  > Quite far, as the folks who replied below have demonstrated. With a single infographic about Harvard? No. Nothing in your comment rises above the level of a hyperbolic rant about - given your lack of citations and mind-bogglingly loose definition of "demonstrate" - something you don't seem to actually believe.
  - cato_the_elder 4y ago
    Here's another chart which I think is evidence in the direction of other major universities [1] engaging in a similar extent of affirmative action: https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/2015/09/articles/body/20151003_FBC019.png https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imageca... The comparison with Caltech (besides the population of college-aged Asisan-Amercians) is because in California, due to Proposition 209 [2], public universities are legally prohibited from using direct racial criteria in admissions. [1]: Brown, Yale, Penn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Princeton, and Columbia [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_209 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_20...