6 ms·

I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part -- the car sales are more-or-less break-even after the monthly sales b

by cbhl 4y ago

I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part -- the car sales are more-or-less break-even after the monthly sales bonus incentives, which is why the dealer does the two-part "let me check with the guy in the back" and then "now that you've agreed to a price, you can talk to the guy in the back who will play 'good cop', explain things in plain english, and then try to upsell you on auto insurance, prepaid repair plans, and financing" to try to extract a little more profit out of a sale.

sammalloy 4y ago
> I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part If you drive a Ford, sure, it needs a lot of service. Which is why I stopped buying Ford. Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer. And when you move to EV, you need even less service than before since the is no ICE to maintain.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  > Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer Well first off, people like buy that marketing stuff hook line and sinker, so they make more on the sale. Second, pretty much any vehicle that rolls on earths surface is going to need stuff serviced in proportion to how close it is to the ground. For cars this means the dealer can make plenty of money selling brake pads, wheel bearings, suspension bushings, tie rods, and other wear items like that (and the labor to swap them out).
  - sammalloy 4y ago
    The thing about Toyota and Honda though is they create loyal customers who keep coming back. My buddy has a Toyota with 250k miles on it. And that’s considered normal wear and tear. Good luck trying to get a Ford past 120k. Ever had to deal with a Ford dealership? It’s like visiting hell for a day.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      It's all in the perceptions. Pretty much everything made in the last 30yr lasts as long as you're willing to keep doing the normal scheduled maintenance and keep feeding it wear parts. The average Toyota buyer is a lot more willing and financially capable of doing that than the kind of person who rolls negative equity on an Altima into a Dodge Journey. I used to be responsible for a fleet of delivery vans. I would have no qualms about buying Ford.
      - sammalloy 4y ago
        You’re talking about the difference between commercial and commuter use. We both know that they are not the same at all, and have different manufacturing environments, parts, builds, and specs. Clearly, this discussion is not about commercial vehicles. Go look at the list of most reliable cars. Toyota and Honda are always listed as number one and two. Ford isn’t ever discussed as "reliable". I think this goes way beyond perception. Yes, commercial vehicles by Ford are probably reliable, but we are talking about regular commuter cars, and when it comes to that class, Toyota and Honda lead.
        yourapostasy 4y ago
        Wow, I was not expecting Ford transit vans to be above-average reliable, but a bit of searching around shows that indeed they are. Not as reliable as a Mercedes Sprinter, but I wonder if the operating costs are lower over the years (they cost roughly the same, which also surprised me) than the Mercedes.
        bombcar 4y ago
        Mercedes is actually quite price competitive. And commercial vehicles live in a different world where companies actually track TCO and friends.
        throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        I think that's just a reflection of how terrible the Euro-vans are in general. in North America they're not held in high regard by anyone other than the highfalutin taxi/airport shuttle/mobility van fleets that buy new and depreciate over the warranty period. The Transit and the Sprinter (the latter of which has really gone down the tubes since it's '00s peak) might be "good" but that's like being MVP in a junior varsity game. Anyone operating them outside of warranty generally hates them compared to the Ford and Chevy vans they're replacing.
  - f0xJtpvHYTVQ88B 4y ago
    Consumer Reports testing consistently rate Asian car brands above American brands in terms of reliability. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...
    - mattdeboard 4y ago
      This is an irrelevant comment. The topic of the conversation taking place is the revenue distribution of dealerships, not the relative reliability of different car manufacturers. Regardless of manufacturer among well-known cars in the U.S., the economics of a car dealership do not change from one to the next.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      They have a long history of this, even when the "American" car is the same as the Asian car except for the name plate. The big brands often fill gaps in their lineup with a car from a smaller Asian company. Other than the name it is the same car built on the same assembly line. There cannot be a difference, yet Consumer reports will rate the American car lower.
      - sammalloy 4y ago
        It’s possible. This reminds me of the partnership between GM and Suzuki.
- JasserInicide 4y ago
  And what will you do when Toyota/Honda do the same thing as Ford/Tesla? Looking at things now, it looks like it's how things are going
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  I have a 19 year old Ford Focus that has been great. It's not much on creature comforts but it starts and runs like new. I've had two Hondas of the same vintage with dead transmissions.
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    It’s a shame those early 2000s automatic transmissions were junk. I’ve owned a few of them myself and it’s part of the territory. They got a lot better around 2012 but the damage was done.

by cbhl 4y ago

sammalloy 4y ago

> I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part If you drive a Ford, sure, it needs a lot of service. Which is why I stopped buying Ford. Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer. And when you move to EV, you need even less service than before since the is no ICE to maintain.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
> Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer Well first off, people like buy that marketing stuff hook line and sinker, so they make more on the sale. Second, pretty much any vehicle that rolls on earths surface is going to need stuff serviced in proportion to how close it is to the ground. For cars this means the dealer can make plenty of money selling brake pads, wheel bearings, suspension bushings, tie rods, and other wear items like that (and the labor to swap them out).
- sammalloy 4y ago
  The thing about Toyota and Honda though is they create loyal customers who keep coming back. My buddy has a Toyota with 250k miles on it. And that’s considered normal wear and tear. Good luck trying to get a Ford past 120k. Ever had to deal with a Ford dealership? It’s like visiting hell for a day.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    It's all in the perceptions. Pretty much everything made in the last 30yr lasts as long as you're willing to keep doing the normal scheduled maintenance and keep feeding it wear parts. The average Toyota buyer is a lot more willing and financially capable of doing that than the kind of person who rolls negative equity on an Altima into a Dodge Journey. I used to be responsible for a fleet of delivery vans. I would have no qualms about buying Ford.
    - sammalloy 4y ago
      You’re talking about the difference between commercial and commuter use. We both know that they are not the same at all, and have different manufacturing environments, parts, builds, and specs. Clearly, this discussion is not about commercial vehicles. Go look at the list of most reliable cars. Toyota and Honda are always listed as number one and two. Ford isn’t ever discussed as "reliable". I think this goes way beyond perception. Yes, commercial vehicles by Ford are probably reliable, but we are talking about regular commuter cars, and when it comes to that class, Toyota and Honda lead.
      - yourapostasy 4y ago
        Wow, I was not expecting Ford transit vans to be above-average reliable, but a bit of searching around shows that indeed they are. Not as reliable as a Mercedes Sprinter, but I wonder if the operating costs are lower over the years (they cost roughly the same, which also surprised me) than the Mercedes.
        bombcar 4y ago
        Mercedes is actually quite price competitive. And commercial vehicles live in a different world where companies actually track TCO and friends.
        throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        I think that's just a reflection of how terrible the Euro-vans are in general. in North America they're not held in high regard by anyone other than the highfalutin taxi/airport shuttle/mobility van fleets that buy new and depreciate over the warranty period. The Transit and the Sprinter (the latter of which has really gone down the tubes since it's '00s peak) might be "good" but that's like being MVP in a junior varsity game. Anyone operating them outside of warranty generally hates them compared to the Ford and Chevy vans they're replacing.
- f0xJtpvHYTVQ88B 4y ago
  Consumer Reports testing consistently rate Asian car brands above American brands in terms of reliability. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...
  - mattdeboard 4y ago
    This is an irrelevant comment. The topic of the conversation taking place is the revenue distribution of dealerships, not the relative reliability of different car manufacturers. Regardless of manufacturer among well-known cars in the U.S., the economics of a car dealership do not change from one to the next.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    They have a long history of this, even when the "American" car is the same as the Asian car except for the name plate. The big brands often fill gaps in their lineup with a car from a smaller Asian company. Other than the name it is the same car built on the same assembly line. There cannot be a difference, yet Consumer reports will rate the American car lower.
    - sammalloy 4y ago
      It’s possible. This reminds me of the partnership between GM and Suzuki.
JasserInicide 4y ago
And what will you do when Toyota/Honda do the same thing as Ford/Tesla? Looking at things now, it looks like it's how things are going
SoftTalker 4y ago
I have a 19 year old Ford Focus that has been great. It's not much on creature comforts but it starts and runs like new. I've had two Hondas of the same vintage with dead transmissions.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  It’s a shame those early 2000s automatic transmissions were junk. I’ve owned a few of them myself and it’s part of the territory. They got a lot better around 2012 but the damage was done.