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Interestingly, labels playing games about releasing albums is an old trick for various old reasons too. https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/apr/15/

Interestingly, labels playing games about releasing albums is an old trick for various old reasons too. https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/apr/15/artists-held-hostage-labels https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/apr/15/arti... https://www.buzzfeed.com/azafar/what-happens-when-your-favorite-artist-is-legally-unable-to https://www.buzzfeed.com/azafar/what-happens-when-your-favor... for a couple old references A change in negotiation power seems like a good evolution of the industry for anyone but record industry execs. But this "record industry is committing suicide" story that the software world likes to read about is even older than the "hollywood is committing suicide" story, since Napster was just music to start with. And yet here we are. Other than the shift in the cut (which is great!), what's going to change? There's still going to be centralization around platforms (TikTok, Spotify, radio) and a need for a partner for things like touring and marketing etc. So will the new boss look that different than the old boss?

notyourwork 4y ago
Its only dragging on because record labels have some of these mega mainstream artists by the balls. As contracts die, as we see more independents rise to the top mainstream record labels will die. It's just going to be slow like cable companies. Inevitable but undoubtedly.
- throwaway_1928 4y ago
  If artists negotiated like Drake, record labels would face a bleak future. https://musically.com/2020/07/20/steve-stoute-if-drake-goes-independent-the-music-business-is-over/ https://musically.com/2020/07/20/steve-stoute-if-drake-goes-...
  - winternett 4y ago
    That video is advertising a digital distribution service which is owned by a well known record label exec. The sales figures are quite exaggerated... 99% of artists never sell anywhere near the volume that Drake does. I think it's important for artists to call out and quit pushing the mostly false profit models that the industry keeps pushing to put artists on a pedestal and to keep artists worshiping the big music industry machine. If Russ was making $1m a week, he would not be doing self-produced promotional videos and tiktok posts about how to succeed in music. Even $1m a week for a well known music artist is not realistic in a good economy when Spotify only pays a fraction of a penny per play.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  maybe but also independent labels have much less negotiating power and human power to check for infringements or unauthorized reproduction, let alone legal authority. All in all a good deal for them it's peanuts for a mainstream label. (I have co-founded a small independent label)
kromem 4y ago
It's not committing suicide - it's just fighting over the rights to the tide pool where the water receded entirely unaware of the tsunami barreling towards them. When the software world can convincingly create new songs that sound like the hit songs people like, but sufficiently different to dodge copyright law, then it's game over. We don't blink an eye at efforts to do things like complete one of Beethoven's symphonies. But that is going to be increased treading a thin line when it's something like create a new album by pseudo-David Bowie. And arguably over that line when it's extending the hit debut album of a living artist who just isn't recapturing that magic. A wall of disruptive change is barreling towards the creative industry (as well as many other industries), and yet most are blissfully unaware, fighting over marginal changes to their status quo - maybe looking at demonstrations of what can be done today saying "that's neat, but it doesn't replace me" without properly looking at how quickly the other is improving. Copyrights are about to become worthless, and so the fight over their management is going to be a short lived victory no matter who wins.
- tomc1985 4y ago
  My god everything about this eventuality just sounds absolutely awful. Just more and more recycling of the same meme-tastic trash (which isn't that far off from the current state of pop music), writ even more large and just plain worse. I'd like to think the future is the opposite -- artists/bands managing themselves as disparate entities, forming around small labels or even their own labels, and having someone in charge to bring the resources they need to bear for touring or performance related stuff so that they can focus on their music.
  - tjr225 4y ago
    There is no eventuality. Relax. Punks are punks because they can’t not exist. You just can’t comprehend what they’re doing next. Neither can I if it makes you feel any better.
  - dano 4y ago
    More than 20 years ago MP3.com tried to educate and support the independent artist. Some would get popular on the platform and eventually get signed and remove their content from the platform - a contract with a label was and is a huge draw, even if it doesn't provide the support and compensation they expect. On the flip side, Eve Selis is an example of an artist who broke on the scene during that time and maintained control over her art https://www.eveselis.com/ https://www.eveselis.com/ I agree that it would be great if more artists followed that path.
iratewizard 4y ago
Hollywood isn't circling the drain? The only way for them to turn a profit is sequels and remakes. The industry that was created by intrigue will be killed by executives trying to make a marvel cinematic universe
winternett 4y ago
The only way to break ground is to promote the music of others that "magically" trends on TikTok non-stop. I joined because I wanted to figure out how it worked and luckily I have been able to mostly resist the addictiveness of it by manipulating search on YouTube to find the content deeply buried on that platform. As a label runner myself. it quickly becomes apparent that TikTok is gamified, and it really only cares about promoted content, and everyone is at the mercy of the 5 seconds of fame rule. Even people who do go viral get exhausted by the content consumption factor of the platform, but the truth is that TikTok is just the most recent and updated iteration of the social media model that really does not work for new music discovery. Listeners, the people that actually buy music are too used to playlist culture now, no one goes searching for music because of the sheer tediousness of the process, and when any music, even total drivel is played repetitively to people, it simply ends up selling. These platforms are a distraction from our lack of choice and individualism, and it also highlights a time when being a successful independent entrepreneur is totally under threat because not only can you be let down by the illusion that success is possible on these platforms, you can also waste lots of money on ads that don't work for much other than generating bot stats, and years of fruitless promotional work on these platforms through the opportunity they promote as "being possible". These platform timelines are focused on single posts you make, they have no interest in allowing people to follow up on your music, and they do absolutely nothing to help listeners to find your music, the work is all on us... The process from scratch every time a new platform rises is excruciating when you don't pay a lot for shortcuts, and those "shortcuts" are what skews every stat you see on platforms. That being said, I mostly go "viral" for the memes I post over our actual music videos... It's allowed me to polish my video production skills and I do get slightly more music sales than the old days of selling CDs out of my trunk.
- Ntrails 4y ago
  > any music, even total drivel, played repetitively to people simply ends up selling. I think there is a magic here that is under appreciated. The reality is that music often takes a few listens to appreciate, or perhaps the right mood/moment to really connect. indeed it seems to me that we learn to like that which we are exposed to, irrespective of whether someone with "taste" thinks it is drivel. Seems like a feature not a bug

notyourwork 4y ago

Its only dragging on because record labels have some of these mega mainstream artists by the balls. As contracts die, as we see more independents rise to the top mainstream record labels will die. It's just going to be slow like cable companies. Inevitable but undoubtedly.

throwaway_1928 4y ago
If artists negotiated like Drake, record labels would face a bleak future. https://musically.com/2020/07/20/steve-stoute-if-drake-goes-independent-the-music-business-is-over/ https://musically.com/2020/07/20/steve-stoute-if-drake-goes-...
- winternett 4y ago
  That video is advertising a digital distribution service which is owned by a well known record label exec. The sales figures are quite exaggerated... 99% of artists never sell anywhere near the volume that Drake does. I think it's important for artists to call out and quit pushing the mostly false profit models that the industry keeps pushing to put artists on a pedestal and to keep artists worshiping the big music industry machine. If Russ was making $1m a week, he would not be doing self-produced promotional videos and tiktok posts about how to succeed in music. Even $1m a week for a well known music artist is not realistic in a good economy when Spotify only pays a fraction of a penny per play.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
maybe but also independent labels have much less negotiating power and human power to check for infringements or unauthorized reproduction, let alone legal authority. All in all a good deal for them it's peanuts for a mainstream label. (I have co-founded a small independent label)

kromem 4y ago

It's not committing suicide - it's just fighting over the rights to the tide pool where the water receded entirely unaware of the tsunami barreling towards them. When the software world can convincingly create new songs that sound like the hit songs people like, but sufficiently different to dodge copyright law, then it's game over. We don't blink an eye at efforts to do things like complete one of Beethoven's symphonies. But that is going to be increased treading a thin line when it's something like create a new album by pseudo-David Bowie. And arguably over that line when it's extending the hit debut album of a living artist who just isn't recapturing that magic. A wall of disruptive change is barreling towards the creative industry (as well as many other industries), and yet most are blissfully unaware, fighting over marginal changes to their status quo - maybe looking at demonstrations of what can be done today saying "that's neat, but it doesn't replace me" without properly looking at how quickly the other is improving. Copyrights are about to become worthless, and so the fight over their management is going to be a short lived victory no matter who wins.

tomc1985 4y ago
My god everything about this eventuality just sounds absolutely awful. Just more and more recycling of the same meme-tastic trash (which isn't that far off from the current state of pop music), writ even more large and just plain worse. I'd like to think the future is the opposite -- artists/bands managing themselves as disparate entities, forming around small labels or even their own labels, and having someone in charge to bring the resources they need to bear for touring or performance related stuff so that they can focus on their music.
- tjr225 4y ago
  There is no eventuality. Relax. Punks are punks because they can’t not exist. You just can’t comprehend what they’re doing next. Neither can I if it makes you feel any better.
- dano 4y ago
  More than 20 years ago MP3.com tried to educate and support the independent artist. Some would get popular on the platform and eventually get signed and remove their content from the platform - a contract with a label was and is a huge draw, even if it doesn't provide the support and compensation they expect. On the flip side, Eve Selis is an example of an artist who broke on the scene during that time and maintained control over her art https://www.eveselis.com/ https://www.eveselis.com/ I agree that it would be great if more artists followed that path.

iratewizard 4y ago

Hollywood isn't circling the drain? The only way for them to turn a profit is sequels and remakes. The industry that was created by intrigue will be killed by executives trying to make a marvel cinematic universe

winternett 4y ago

The only way to break ground is to promote the music of others that "magically" trends on TikTok non-stop. I joined because I wanted to figure out how it worked and luckily I have been able to mostly resist the addictiveness of it by manipulating search on YouTube to find the content deeply buried on that platform. As a label runner myself. it quickly becomes apparent that TikTok is gamified, and it really only cares about promoted content, and everyone is at the mercy of the 5 seconds of fame rule. Even people who do go viral get exhausted by the content consumption factor of the platform, but the truth is that TikTok is just the most recent and updated iteration of the social media model that really does not work for new music discovery. Listeners, the people that actually buy music are too used to playlist culture now, no one goes searching for music because of the sheer tediousness of the process, and when any music, even total drivel is played repetitively to people, it simply ends up selling. These platforms are a distraction from our lack of choice and individualism, and it also highlights a time when being a successful independent entrepreneur is totally under threat because not only can you be let down by the illusion that success is possible on these platforms, you can also waste lots of money on ads that don't work for much other than generating bot stats, and years of fruitless promotional work on these platforms through the opportunity they promote as "being possible". These platform timelines are focused on single posts you make, they have no interest in allowing people to follow up on your music, and they do absolutely nothing to help listeners to find your music, the work is all on us... The process from scratch every time a new platform rises is excruciating when you don't pay a lot for shortcuts, and those "shortcuts" are what skews every stat you see on platforms. That being said, I mostly go "viral" for the memes I post over our actual music videos... It's allowed me to polish my video production skills and I do get slightly more music sales than the old days of selling CDs out of my trunk.

Ntrails 4y ago
> any music, even total drivel, played repetitively to people simply ends up selling. I think there is a magic here that is under appreciated. The reality is that music often takes a few listens to appreciate, or perhaps the right mood/moment to really connect. indeed it seems to me that we learn to like that which we are exposed to, irrespective of whether someone with "taste" thinks it is drivel. Seems like a feature not a bug