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>That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? the only thing I can think to

by serf 4y ago

>That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? the only thing I can think to say is that they are still a convenient repair facility, Tesla is fairly notorious for slow turn-around for repair.[0] I think a nice middle-ground would be the conversion of dealerships into showrooms/receiving-centers/repair facilities -- oust the sales portion and highly regulate the repair pricing. Faster repair times while getting rid of most of the scummy parts of the car dealership experience. [0]: https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/model-3-significant-repair-times-5-months-and-counting.20044/ https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/model-3-significan...

themitigating 4y ago
Tesla's wait times could be because they are scaling up and part delays.
- jethro_tell 4y ago
  Well, and becuse they don't have a dealership in every city. You can get a ford serviced anywhere and they have a waiting room for you to wait if needed. Even in rural areas, a very small percentage of the country is not going to be close to a dealer. if your driving a newer car, theyll handle warrenty work, recalls, service packages that your car came with. Everyone is having parts Problems, it's the scaling that Tesla still needs to do.
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  Tesla's wait times are because every part that sits on a shelf for warranty/service/accident repairs is a part that can't go on a vehicle coming off the assembly line, and we all know that Tesla / Elon has a raging hard on for "deliveries, deliveries, deliveries". "Because they're scaling up". They've been making vehicles for 14 years, how much more time do they get to realize they should have a parts network?
  - vkou 4y ago
    > Tesla's wait times are because every part that sits on a shelf for warranty/service/accident repairs is a part that can't go on a vehicle coming off the assembly line, and we all know that Tesla / Elon has a raging hard on for "deliveries, deliveries, deliveries". The Soviet Union's automotive industry operated in this exact manner. It's why, when by some miracle you got your hands on a car, sourcing replacement parts was nigh-impossible. > ... how much more time do they get to realize they should have a parts network? It took them ~60 years, give or take.
sircastor 4y ago
I’ll second this from a privileged position. I own a late model Land Rover, and if I take it down to the dealer to solve something, they treat me very well and put me in a very nice lounge while I wait. It’s a first class experience. I don’t think I’d get as nice attention from a non-luxury dealer though.
- dnndev 4y ago
  I would rather they pickup my car fix it and return it. To me that is luxury. Forcing me to go to your location and waiting on you is not convenient.
  - reustle 4y ago
    That is most certainly also an option, but likely a bit wasteful and much more time consuming if it’s a small issue.
  - FireBeyond 4y ago
    I get that option from both my Lincoln dealer and my Audi dealer, even for scheduled services. And they both leave a loaner with me, not some Uber credits.
  - f0xJtpvHYTVQ88B 4y ago
    What about a loaner while your car is being fixed?
- bombcar 4y ago
  Every dealership I’ve ever been to has been like that. Sometimes they’re even worth using for “normal” repairs because they will sometimes bill by the book even if the actual labor time is higher.
  - sammalloy 4y ago
    > Sometimes they’re even worth using for “normal” repairs because they will sometimes bill by the book even if the actual labor time is higher. This is exactly correct. Which is why if you aren’t sure, compare prices with your preferred mechanic first. Where I am, the best independent mechanics and shops charge more than the dealer, for various reasons.
pavon 4y ago
Agreed. I have nothing but bad experiences taking cars to the dealership for repair, and normally choose to avoid them for everything except for recalls. However, when buying an EV, I want to know that the manufacturer has repair facilities nearby since third-party EV mechanics are almost non-existent at this point. If Ford is deliberately bypassing their dealerships for sales, then I would expect the repair service provided by dealerships to be even worse than normal, since they have no motivation to make you a repeat customer. And if not the dealership, where will I have the truck serviced?
- cbhl 4y ago
  I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part -- the car sales are more-or-less break-even after the monthly sales bonus incentives, which is why the dealer does the two-part "let me check with the guy in the back" and then "now that you've agreed to a price, you can talk to the guy in the back who will play 'good cop', explain things in plain english, and then try to upsell you on auto insurance, prepaid repair plans, and financing" to try to extract a little more profit out of a sale.
  - sammalloy 4y ago
    > I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part If you drive a Ford, sure, it needs a lot of service. Which is why I stopped buying Ford. Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer. And when you move to EV, you need even less service than before since the is no ICE to maintain.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      > Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer Well first off, people like buy that marketing stuff hook line and sinker, so they make more on the sale. Second, pretty much any vehicle that rolls on earths surface is going to need stuff serviced in proportion to how close it is to the ground. For cars this means the dealer can make plenty of money selling brake pads, wheel bearings, suspension bushings, tie rods, and other wear items like that (and the labor to swap them out).
poutine 4y ago
All manufacturers can suffer from poor repair times, not only Tesla. Especially these days. I waited six months for a brake booster replacement in my Audi SQ5 as it sat in the service center. They did give me a loaner the whole time though...
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  RS 5 owner (and a few As). Any time my Audi has been in the shop for more than 2 hours I'm offered or given a loaner. Or they pick up my car, at home, drop off a loaner, and then return mine. Try that with Tesla. Hey, we can give you Uber credits. Hope they're usable in your area, and you didn't have too much to do.
- throwaway742 4y ago
  Tesla had very poor repair times even before the supply chain issues, much worse than other makes.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    I don't disbelieve you but would still really like details (how much worse than others?)/a citation here.
    - throwaway742 4y ago
      https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5qeca7/6_months_in_still_waiting_on_my_repair/ https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5qeca7/6_month...
      - concordDance 4y ago
        Um. Dude. That's a non-randomly sampled anecdote that says nothing about average repair times. It is quite literally worse than useless.
        throwaway742 4y ago
chemmail 4y ago
There is virtually none. My brother and my best friend sold cars and jumps around. Now they are at a no haggle Toyota dealership that basically sells at MSRP. It is generally much better for everyone involved. Just make it like a Tesla experience, throw you the keys, if you want it here is the prices. Don't have to deal with BS anywhere. The "dealership" model needs to be killed off. It's probably just a few dozen moguls that make money off of these dealerships and spend most of their money lobbying.
- Brendinooo 4y ago
  I think that’s far less true then you think it is. I don’t love the dealer experience, but they distribute the wealth of the auto industry regionally instead of concentrating it in Dearborn or wherever. Local dealers are always sponsoring little league teams and paying property taxes on relatively valuable real estate in a way that Tesla never will. I dunno, it’s hard to argue this if you take it as gospel that the economy is at its best when it’s finding efficiency at whatever cost. I don’t feel super strongly, but I do think there’s something to this.
2rsf 4y ago
That's how Polestar works- online sales with no negotiations, showrooms that are just that- showrooms and service is done at Volvo service places.
lastofthemojito 4y ago
I read a story on Reddit of a guy who was banned from CarMax and couldn't figure out why. He was told it was decided by corporate, and that was that. https://old.reddit.com/r/carmax/comments/cx82v8/carmax_refused_me_as_a_customer/ https://old.reddit.com/r/carmax/comments/cx82v8/carmax_refus... Kind of reminds me of stories of folks who need support with Google account issues - sometimes things like that just slip through the cracks. Google might have processes for typical cases, but if a weird corner case arises, it can be impossible to get someone to make an exception to help you. I wonder if things would go the same way with centralized sales and repair processes ... "hey my new car is having this weird issue" ... "sorry the algorithm says everything is within spec, go away", rather than potentially being able to contact multiple independent dealership service departments until someone is able to reproduce/fix your issue.

by serf 4y ago

themitigating 4y ago

Tesla's wait times could be because they are scaling up and part delays.

jethro_tell 4y ago
Well, and becuse they don't have a dealership in every city. You can get a ford serviced anywhere and they have a waiting room for you to wait if needed. Even in rural areas, a very small percentage of the country is not going to be close to a dealer. if your driving a newer car, theyll handle warrenty work, recalls, service packages that your car came with. Everyone is having parts Problems, it's the scaling that Tesla still needs to do.
FireBeyond 4y ago
Tesla's wait times are because every part that sits on a shelf for warranty/service/accident repairs is a part that can't go on a vehicle coming off the assembly line, and we all know that Tesla / Elon has a raging hard on for "deliveries, deliveries, deliveries". "Because they're scaling up". They've been making vehicles for 14 years, how much more time do they get to realize they should have a parts network?
- vkou 4y ago
  > Tesla's wait times are because every part that sits on a shelf for warranty/service/accident repairs is a part that can't go on a vehicle coming off the assembly line, and we all know that Tesla / Elon has a raging hard on for "deliveries, deliveries, deliveries". The Soviet Union's automotive industry operated in this exact manner. It's why, when by some miracle you got your hands on a car, sourcing replacement parts was nigh-impossible. > ... how much more time do they get to realize they should have a parts network? It took them ~60 years, give or take.

sircastor 4y ago

I’ll second this from a privileged position. I own a late model Land Rover, and if I take it down to the dealer to solve something, they treat me very well and put me in a very nice lounge while I wait. It’s a first class experience. I don’t think I’d get as nice attention from a non-luxury dealer though.

dnndev 4y ago
I would rather they pickup my car fix it and return it. To me that is luxury. Forcing me to go to your location and waiting on you is not convenient.
- reustle 4y ago
  That is most certainly also an option, but likely a bit wasteful and much more time consuming if it’s a small issue.
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  I get that option from both my Lincoln dealer and my Audi dealer, even for scheduled services. And they both leave a loaner with me, not some Uber credits.
- f0xJtpvHYTVQ88B 4y ago
  What about a loaner while your car is being fixed?
bombcar 4y ago
Every dealership I’ve ever been to has been like that. Sometimes they’re even worth using for “normal” repairs because they will sometimes bill by the book even if the actual labor time is higher.
- sammalloy 4y ago
  > Sometimes they’re even worth using for “normal” repairs because they will sometimes bill by the book even if the actual labor time is higher. This is exactly correct. Which is why if you aren’t sure, compare prices with your preferred mechanic first. Where I am, the best independent mechanics and shops charge more than the dealer, for various reasons.

pavon 4y ago

Agreed. I have nothing but bad experiences taking cars to the dealership for repair, and normally choose to avoid them for everything except for recalls. However, when buying an EV, I want to know that the manufacturer has repair facilities nearby since third-party EV mechanics are almost non-existent at this point. If Ford is deliberately bypassing their dealerships for sales, then I would expect the repair service provided by dealerships to be even worse than normal, since they have no motivation to make you a repeat customer. And if not the dealership, where will I have the truck serviced?

cbhl 4y ago
I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part -- the car sales are more-or-less break-even after the monthly sales bonus incentives, which is why the dealer does the two-part "let me check with the guy in the back" and then "now that you've agreed to a price, you can talk to the guy in the back who will play 'good cop', explain things in plain english, and then try to upsell you on auto insurance, prepaid repair plans, and financing" to try to extract a little more profit out of a sale.
- sammalloy 4y ago
  > I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part If you drive a Ford, sure, it needs a lot of service. Which is why I stopped buying Ford. Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer. And when you move to EV, you need even less service than before since the is no ICE to maintain.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    > Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer Well first off, people like buy that marketing stuff hook line and sinker, so they make more on the sale. Second, pretty much any vehicle that rolls on earths surface is going to need stuff serviced in proportion to how close it is to the ground. For cars this means the dealer can make plenty of money selling brake pads, wheel bearings, suspension bushings, tie rods, and other wear items like that (and the labor to swap them out).

poutine 4y ago

All manufacturers can suffer from poor repair times, not only Tesla. Especially these days. I waited six months for a brake booster replacement in my Audi SQ5 as it sat in the service center. They did give me a loaner the whole time though...

FireBeyond 4y ago
RS 5 owner (and a few As). Any time my Audi has been in the shop for more than 2 hours I'm offered or given a loaner. Or they pick up my car, at home, drop off a loaner, and then return mine. Try that with Tesla. Hey, we can give you Uber credits. Hope they're usable in your area, and you didn't have too much to do.
throwaway742 4y ago
Tesla had very poor repair times even before the supply chain issues, much worse than other makes.
- concordDance 4y ago
  I don't disbelieve you but would still really like details (how much worse than others?)/a citation here.
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5qeca7/6_months_in_still_waiting_on_my_repair/ https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5qeca7/6_month...
    - concordDance 4y ago
      Um. Dude. That's a non-randomly sampled anecdote that says nothing about average repair times. It is quite literally worse than useless.
      - throwaway742 4y ago

chemmail 4y ago

There is virtually none. My brother and my best friend sold cars and jumps around. Now they are at a no haggle Toyota dealership that basically sells at MSRP. It is generally much better for everyone involved. Just make it like a Tesla experience, throw you the keys, if you want it here is the prices. Don't have to deal with BS anywhere. The "dealership" model needs to be killed off. It's probably just a few dozen moguls that make money off of these dealerships and spend most of their money lobbying.

Brendinooo 4y ago
I think that’s far less true then you think it is. I don’t love the dealer experience, but they distribute the wealth of the auto industry regionally instead of concentrating it in Dearborn or wherever. Local dealers are always sponsoring little league teams and paying property taxes on relatively valuable real estate in a way that Tesla never will. I dunno, it’s hard to argue this if you take it as gospel that the economy is at its best when it’s finding efficiency at whatever cost. I don’t feel super strongly, but I do think there’s something to this.

2rsf 4y ago

That's how Polestar works- online sales with no negotiations, showrooms that are just that- showrooms and service is done at Volvo service places.

lastofthemojito 4y ago

I read a story on Reddit of a guy who was banned from CarMax and couldn't figure out why. He was told it was decided by corporate, and that was that. https://old.reddit.com/r/carmax/comments/cx82v8/carmax_refused_me_as_a_customer/ https://old.reddit.com/r/carmax/comments/cx82v8/carmax_refus... Kind of reminds me of stories of folks who need support with Google account issues - sometimes things like that just slip through the cracks. Google might have processes for typical cases, but if a weird corner case arises, it can be impossible to get someone to make an exception to help you. I wonder if things would go the same way with centralized sales and repair processes ... "hey my new car is having this weird issue" ... "sorry the algorithm says everything is within spec, go away", rather than potentially being able to contact multiple independent dealership service departments until someone is able to reproduce/fix your issue.