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Emails aren’t thoughtcrimes. This is nonsense. Everything in corporate email has always been subject to read by others, there is no expectation of privacy. A

Emails aren’t thoughtcrimes. This is nonsense. Everything in corporate email has always been subject to read by others, there is no expectation of privacy. As we’ve seen from countless court cases, they range from boring nothingburgers, to evidence of actual crimes.

GauntletWizard 4y ago
Right, and this functionality is to punish you for nothingburgers as much as actual crimes. "Leaver" detection is something that is entirely sane for corporations to do but will be abused by the usual suspects in HR to instill fear and to retribute.
- parasubvert 4y ago
  Of course it is. But this is how it has always been even without this technology. The cost is lowering because the demand for is pervasive.
throwaway290 4y ago
I think it's that you can be considered effectively guilty (there's grounds to fire you or take disciplinary action against you) for tripping an ML routine without further evidence or proof, and that it seems more important to have "clean" corporate communication rather than actually act in good faith (as long as bad stuff happens on off channels, no one cares). Hopefully it doesn't make it outside of the corporate world though.
- bombcar 4y ago
  They want you to know and realize that you’re being monitored so that you take the “bad” communications to where subpoenas can’t get them. Be good cogs; don’t leave logs.
- parasubvert 4y ago
  It already has left the corporate world in China. Technology, like advanced weapons, doesn’t solve political problems for long, as the other side eventually gets their hands on it.
mc32 4y ago
There is a difference between an investigation under subpoena for example and An automated process that alerts whomever is chosen as overseers to all possible missteps and misdeeds. One is a very targeted and conscious effort the other is automated and pervasive everywhere all the time.
- parasubvert 4y ago
  Building and selling AI software to do this is also a targeted and conscious effort. My view is this kind of thing is inevitable and pervasive because there’s a lot of internal risks that companies and governments are worried about. The only solution is to be so valuable that it doesn’t matter.
  - mc32 4y ago
    Ok but on the one hand one choice is blanket pre-approved for all time for everyone with no time expenditure. The other one is instigated and deliberate at the official request of legal and can take a lot of time. It’s very different. It instills a climate of untrust. Everyone is “guilty”. In the other scenario everyone is innocent till a specific and circumscribed “matter” is started.
  - josefx 4y ago
    The targeted normally implies that you have a specific incident and a specific person suspected of a misdeed. Building an AI for blanked surveillance is the opposite of that, you aren't looking for a specific incident, have no specific person to suspect. You are basically accusing everyone of being a criminal without any evidence of wrongdoing. Most people don't want to spend their whole lives treated as criminals, anyone who does is free to live in north korea or russia.
okasaki 4y ago
> Everything in corporate email has always been subject to read by others, there is no expectation of privacy. Depends where you work? I expect my work emails to be private.

GauntletWizard 4y ago

Right, and this functionality is to punish you for nothingburgers as much as actual crimes. "Leaver" detection is something that is entirely sane for corporations to do but will be abused by the usual suspects in HR to instill fear and to retribute.

parasubvert 4y ago
Of course it is. But this is how it has always been even without this technology. The cost is lowering because the demand for is pervasive.

throwaway290 4y ago

I think it's that you can be considered effectively guilty (there's grounds to fire you or take disciplinary action against you) for tripping an ML routine without further evidence or proof, and that it seems more important to have "clean" corporate communication rather than actually act in good faith (as long as bad stuff happens on off channels, no one cares). Hopefully it doesn't make it outside of the corporate world though.

bombcar 4y ago
They want you to know and realize that you’re being monitored so that you take the “bad” communications to where subpoenas can’t get them. Be good cogs; don’t leave logs.
parasubvert 4y ago
It already has left the corporate world in China. Technology, like advanced weapons, doesn’t solve political problems for long, as the other side eventually gets their hands on it.

mc32 4y ago

There is a difference between an investigation under subpoena for example and An automated process that alerts whomever is chosen as overseers to all possible missteps and misdeeds. One is a very targeted and conscious effort the other is automated and pervasive everywhere all the time.

parasubvert 4y ago
Building and selling AI software to do this is also a targeted and conscious effort. My view is this kind of thing is inevitable and pervasive because there’s a lot of internal risks that companies and governments are worried about. The only solution is to be so valuable that it doesn’t matter.
- mc32 4y ago
  Ok but on the one hand one choice is blanket pre-approved for all time for everyone with no time expenditure. The other one is instigated and deliberate at the official request of legal and can take a lot of time. It’s very different. It instills a climate of untrust. Everyone is “guilty”. In the other scenario everyone is innocent till a specific and circumscribed “matter” is started.
- josefx 4y ago
  The targeted normally implies that you have a specific incident and a specific person suspected of a misdeed. Building an AI for blanked surveillance is the opposite of that, you aren't looking for a specific incident, have no specific person to suspect. You are basically accusing everyone of being a criminal without any evidence of wrongdoing. Most people don't want to spend their whole lives treated as criminals, anyone who does is free to live in north korea or russia.

okasaki 4y ago

> Everything in corporate email has always been subject to read by others, there is no expectation of privacy. Depends where you work? I expect my work emails to be private.