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I'm constantly surprised that grown adults can believe modern "democracies" are actual democracies. How many election cycles do you need to go through before y

I'm constantly surprised that grown adults can believe modern "democracies" are actual democracies. How many election cycles do you need to go through before you realise a change of government is largely ceremonial, with only a few slight tweaks of policy? Much of the true power in a western democracy is not elected. Civil service, the judicial system, the media, big business. Being a prime minister can largely be seen as an apprenticeship before you can sit on a board of directors at a major corporation. Is this an emperors new clothes thing? A cultural taboo to point it out? Your man on the street can see it plain as day, but some how educated people who become very knowledgeable about the official structure of government seem the most invested in democratic LARPing. Am I the annoying guy pointing out that wrestling is fake when people are trying to enjoy the show?

seoaeu 4y ago
> Is this an emperors new clothes thing? A cultural taboo to point it out? If you believe in some broadly unpopular view, there's always the possibility that you're just wrong. In the US we saw substantial shifts in policies over the last three presidential administrations, shifts that had real-life impacts on countless people. And while I can't speak directly to the health of the UK's democracy, I suspect that you may be exaggerating the degree that the different parties agree with each-other. > Am I the annoying guy pointing out that wrestling is fake when people are trying to enjoy the show? Probably closer to the annoying guy who suggests giving up when your team is faced with a hard problem.
function_seven 4y ago
I promise I'm not going to argue about abortion, but it's the most obvious example I can see here. If the "ceremonial" change in government that happened in the US in 2016 had gone the other way, we would 100% guaranteed not see the Roe v. Wade ruling being overturned. It will be a judicial action that reverses this policy, but it required the election of Trump to happen. This is not a slight tweak. The count of the votes in that election resulted in real policy differences. Nothing ceremonial about it. This isn't kayfabe. Ask a UK fisherman how real the impact of the 2016 Brexit vote was. My the thinnest of margins, a non-binding referendum gave an elected government what they needed to make dramatic changes in policy. No tweaking here. Of course I won't pretend that all power rests in the hands of "The People." Yes, civil servants, judges, and media barons all have vast amounts of power to agitate for war, ban e-cigarettes, or legislate from the bench. But the people do have one lever, and I'm glad our culture considers poo-poohing it a taboo.

seoaeu 4y ago

> Is this an emperors new clothes thing? A cultural taboo to point it out? If you believe in some broadly unpopular view, there's always the possibility that you're just wrong. In the US we saw substantial shifts in policies over the last three presidential administrations, shifts that had real-life impacts on countless people. And while I can't speak directly to the health of the UK's democracy, I suspect that you may be exaggerating the degree that the different parties agree with each-other. > Am I the annoying guy pointing out that wrestling is fake when people are trying to enjoy the show? Probably closer to the annoying guy who suggests giving up when your team is faced with a hard problem.

function_seven 4y ago

I promise I'm not going to argue about abortion, but it's the most obvious example I can see here. If the "ceremonial" change in government that happened in the US in 2016 had gone the other way, we would 100% guaranteed not see the Roe v. Wade ruling being overturned. It will be a judicial action that reverses this policy, but it required the election of Trump to happen. This is not a slight tweak. The count of the votes in that election resulted in real policy differences. Nothing ceremonial about it. This isn't kayfabe. Ask a UK fisherman how real the impact of the 2016 Brexit vote was. My the thinnest of margins, a non-binding referendum gave an elected government what they needed to make dramatic changes in policy. No tweaking here. Of course I won't pretend that all power rests in the hands of "The People." Yes, civil servants, judges, and media barons all have vast amounts of power to agitate for war, ban e-cigarettes, or legislate from the bench. But the people do have one lever, and I'm glad our culture considers poo-poohing it a taboo.