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I've worked in social for over a decade and even attempted a startup in the space. If we're taking the dopamine hit mention in this article seriously, then the

by madrox 4y ago

I've worked in social for over a decade and even attempted a startup in the space. If we're taking the dopamine hit mention in this article seriously, then the western world has completely fried its dopamine receptors. I've observed people are craving serotonin as a result. You get that through actual community and connection. You can't get that on massive networks. You get that on small ones, but finding small ones can be hard. If social media is a walled garden, then I believe the next wave of social media will be "social fences." Ways of creating silos within a platform so that you only interact with specific communities, much like how subreddits, discord servers, or twitch channels operate. Even if I'm wrong about where it's going, I think everyone feels that the wave of the last decade is cresting. Catching it will be tricky, but if you manage it then you'll ride it far.

tempsy 4y ago
something tells me Zuck is ironically one of those parents who is very strict about screen time with his kids.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  I wonder how much actually contact he has with his kids. I'm certain he sets the rules for the nannies, of course. Same for Musk -- bet those nannies do a lot of eyerolling, though.
nickstinemates 4y ago
Small fish probably also don't feel so small in an aquarium vs. the ocean. I tend to agree, walled gardens and echo chambers are a natural consequence of everyone finding their tribes.
ianai 4y ago
I wonder if something like a social IoT device could get traction? Ie sell people something like another router that lets them have their own profile hosted only there and accessible only through others peoples devices after a “handshake” of sorts?
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  I don't think the average user gives any damn about the privacy of their data and would see having any physical device as a step backwards.
  - ianai 4y ago
    Question is whether enough demand exists for meaningful use.
- madrox 4y ago
  I’ve heard this floated for a decade. The current product of that line of thinking is mastodon. It’s a profile you can host on your own server (or someone else’s) that has sharing functions.
- alar44 4y ago
  Oh sure. Everyone just needs to self-host their own website. That'll definitely take off.
VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
> people are craving serotonin You think people are craving to be passified? That would be contrary to any social media, or interaction on the web entirely.
- ianai 4y ago
  Because people who don’t meet your criteria are vastly less likely to post.
  - VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
    That's not even what this article is about though. Those people don't post anyway.
- madrox 4y ago
  I’m not sure how we go from serotonin to pacification. That seems like a leap to me based on the role serotonin plays in the body. Regardless, I find the whole jump from product experience to neurochemical behavior a bit silly to begin with. I wouldn’t use it except this article did first.
fleddr 4y ago
In a way, Zuckerberg predicted your take years ago. He saw the writing on the wall regarding the many issues of having an enormous public town square and the "share everything" mindset, and opted for more pocketed communities. If we're being honest here, the center of gravity regarding dopamine is Twitter. I spotted a fascinating effect regarding people "threatening" to leave Twitter as they're tired of all the rage. Most of course never even attempt to leave, but those that do may give Mastodon a try. At Mastodon, they create a fresh little sub community and move over their Twitter bubble the best they can. Now things get interesting. Crickets. As it turns out, the only thing that held the bubble together is a common enemy. There is no enemy in the new bubble that only has friends. Worse, not even the friends turn out to be friends. None give a single fuck about the other, and would be absolutely fine not ever hearing a single word from you ever again. They were just liking your opinion against another opinion to which they also disagreed. That was all. For the true hardcore Twitter addict, their entire existence and identity is effectively wiped out when you take away the rage. Hates gave them status, and being happy is the worst thing that can happen to them.
SLWW 4y ago
I spend quite a bit of time forming bonds/relationships with people on the fediverse (not all of the instances are garbage full of crazed lunatics) and it took over a year of looking for the right fit, but once I did, I haven't thought of leaving that community, even through times where my account is dormant for a period (as it's easier to take breaks). I only really interact with less then 20 people and I probably have 70 followers. This has improved my mental and emotional health ever since i met these people, they are real, and like me they don't say things or do things for attention; as you would go to quite literally any other social structure for those things. The "open" nature intertwined with these "islands" of people creates for a really cool social experience. Easily the best I've had online since most of the forums I used to be a part of have died. If you need someone to bounce things off of, just DM them; they are real and they won't post screenshots of your interaction two years later. Obviously that's not true for every instance, and it's not true for every person, but you have a higher likelihood of finding people you can genuinely care about even if they don't live in your area, and the only thing that unites you is the general dislike for people, but the begrudging realization that we need each other.
stuntkite 4y ago
> I've observed people are craving serotonin as a result. This statement is very interesting and I would like it if you expanded and clarified what you're talking about here. I'm not trying to debunk you or anything and I think I get it, but it's a pretty wild thing to say without giving more details and I would really enjoy it if you expanded on this sentence.
nicopicnicapp 4y ago
Hey, I have been obsessed with this problem for around this for around 2 years - trying to create the “operating system” for interests. We’re still early but softlaunched 2 months ago and are at around 1 million downloads. If you want to chat, email me at nico@picnic.zone

by madrox 4y ago

tempsy 4y ago

something tells me Zuck is ironically one of those parents who is very strict about screen time with his kids.

KerrAvon 4y ago
I wonder how much actually contact he has with his kids. I'm certain he sets the rules for the nannies, of course. Same for Musk -- bet those nannies do a lot of eyerolling, though.

nickstinemates 4y ago

Small fish probably also don't feel so small in an aquarium vs. the ocean. I tend to agree, walled gardens and echo chambers are a natural consequence of everyone finding their tribes.

ianai 4y ago

I wonder if something like a social IoT device could get traction? Ie sell people something like another router that lets them have their own profile hosted only there and accessible only through others peoples devices after a “handshake” of sorts?

iLoveOncall 4y ago
I don't think the average user gives any damn about the privacy of their data and would see having any physical device as a step backwards.
- ianai 4y ago
  Question is whether enough demand exists for meaningful use.
madrox 4y ago
I’ve heard this floated for a decade. The current product of that line of thinking is mastodon. It’s a profile you can host on your own server (or someone else’s) that has sharing functions.
alar44 4y ago
Oh sure. Everyone just needs to self-host their own website. That'll definitely take off.

VWWHFSfQ 4y ago

> people are craving serotonin You think people are craving to be passified? That would be contrary to any social media, or interaction on the web entirely.

ianai 4y ago
Because people who don’t meet your criteria are vastly less likely to post.
- VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
  That's not even what this article is about though. Those people don't post anyway.
madrox 4y ago
I’m not sure how we go from serotonin to pacification. That seems like a leap to me based on the role serotonin plays in the body. Regardless, I find the whole jump from product experience to neurochemical behavior a bit silly to begin with. I wouldn’t use it except this article did first.

fleddr 4y ago

In a way, Zuckerberg predicted your take years ago. He saw the writing on the wall regarding the many issues of having an enormous public town square and the "share everything" mindset, and opted for more pocketed communities. If we're being honest here, the center of gravity regarding dopamine is Twitter. I spotted a fascinating effect regarding people "threatening" to leave Twitter as they're tired of all the rage. Most of course never even attempt to leave, but those that do may give Mastodon a try. At Mastodon, they create a fresh little sub community and move over their Twitter bubble the best they can. Now things get interesting. Crickets. As it turns out, the only thing that held the bubble together is a common enemy. There is no enemy in the new bubble that only has friends. Worse, not even the friends turn out to be friends. None give a single fuck about the other, and would be absolutely fine not ever hearing a single word from you ever again. They were just liking your opinion against another opinion to which they also disagreed. That was all. For the true hardcore Twitter addict, their entire existence and identity is effectively wiped out when you take away the rage. Hates gave them status, and being happy is the worst thing that can happen to them.

SLWW 4y ago

I spend quite a bit of time forming bonds/relationships with people on the fediverse (not all of the instances are garbage full of crazed lunatics) and it took over a year of looking for the right fit, but once I did, I haven't thought of leaving that community, even through times where my account is dormant for a period (as it's easier to take breaks). I only really interact with less then 20 people and I probably have 70 followers. This has improved my mental and emotional health ever since i met these people, they are real, and like me they don't say things or do things for attention; as you would go to quite literally any other social structure for those things. The "open" nature intertwined with these "islands" of people creates for a really cool social experience. Easily the best I've had online since most of the forums I used to be a part of have died. If you need someone to bounce things off of, just DM them; they are real and they won't post screenshots of your interaction two years later. Obviously that's not true for every instance, and it's not true for every person, but you have a higher likelihood of finding people you can genuinely care about even if they don't live in your area, and the only thing that unites you is the general dislike for people, but the begrudging realization that we need each other.

stuntkite 4y ago

> I've observed people are craving serotonin as a result. This statement is very interesting and I would like it if you expanded and clarified what you're talking about here. I'm not trying to debunk you or anything and I think I get it, but it's a pretty wild thing to say without giving more details and I would really enjoy it if you expanded on this sentence.

nicopicnicapp 4y ago

Hey, I have been obsessed with this problem for around this for around 2 years - trying to create the “operating system” for interests. We’re still early but softlaunched 2 months ago and are at around 1 million downloads. If you want to chat, email me at nico@picnic.zone