4 ms·

It's not really lying or deceit. It's just companies talk about their future-perfect-best self during the interview and offer - as does the candidate. The unsp

It's not really lying or deceit. It's just companies talk about their future-perfect-best self during the interview and offer - as does the candidate. The unspoken rule is that things can change dramatically in a few hours and each party should deal with it - which means it's also totally ok to back out of the offer you received and move on.

wslack 4y ago
Some companies don't do this sort of thing. That others do doesn't justify making this sort of choice with every company.
- pooper 4y ago
  > Some companies don't do this sort of thing. That others do doesn't justify making this sort of choice with every company. Replace companies with jobseekers. Some jobseekers don't do this sort of thing. That others do doesn't justify making this sort of choice with every jobseeker. I've talked to recruiters who have been rude to me for refusing to "give a number" as in my expected salary/wages. I also do not recommend accepting offers and then backing out. However, I submit that there is no company, even if you founded it yourself, that deserves your loyalty forever.
- ryanbrunner 4y ago
  It's obviously impossible to say anything universal here, but in my experience, you could restate that statement as "Some companies haven't had to do this sort of thing yet". When the viability of the company is at stake, or orders are coming from the board, no company is going to make a significant sacrifice to stay true to their word if there's no legal consequences for breaking it. Edit: to be clear, I don't mean things like knowingly lying beforehand, but if circumstances drastically changed, I would 100% expect companies to rescind outstanding offers, so I similarly wouldn't hold it against a candidate for rescinding their acceptance if their circumstances changed significantly. It's reasonable to expect both companies and candidates to act in good faith, but it's unreasonable for them to face significant hardship just to honour an offer if their situation changes.
bradlys 4y ago
It is lying. It is deceit. We just dupe people new to the industry about these tactics. It's only the veterans who know that every person and company is completely full of shit. Startups have "aspirational" speaking where they say they're using revolutionary "AI" and yadda-yadda to do such and such - even if they don't have any of that and there's nothing actually on the roadmap for it. It's a lie. You may want it but you don't. If I say I have a billion dollars and fly to the moon on weekends - am I lying if I don't actually? In your words - no. I'm being "aspirational".
- djbusby 4y ago
  So...Coinbase should keep the offer even if it makes bad financial sense? It was true when they made the offer, time passes and things changed, now it's not true. It's a lie if it's false when you say it - not if it becomes false in the unpredictable future.
  - ramsj 4y ago
    So...Job seekers should commit to an acceptance even if it makes bad financial/personal sense? It was true when they accepted the offer, time passes and things changed (e.g., got a better offer), now it's not true.
    - runnerup 4y ago
      Maybe the job seeker could offer to work for free for the number of hours they'd be contractually entitled to in severance payments if they were fired their first week on the job. Usually that's zero.
  - MikeTheGreat 4y ago
    > So...Coinbase should keep the offer even if it makes bad financial sense? How about Coinbase withdraws the offer AND gives the former-future-employee some money to reflect the fact that Coinbase really did want to hire them but now genuinely can't AND that this change has a real and negative impact on the former-future-employee? Like, a payment on the order of a month or two of living costs (not just "Sorry, and here's $100") Sure that's expensive, but it's still cheaper than hiring the person for months of time, what with salary, benefits, office and equipment costs, etc.
runamok 4y ago
I mean if a business's fortunes change this quickly it usually means the leadership has no clue. Their job is to be able to accurately forecast all kinds of things at least up to the next few quarters.

wslack 4y ago

Some companies don't do this sort of thing. That others do doesn't justify making this sort of choice with every company.

pooper 4y ago
> Some companies don't do this sort of thing. That others do doesn't justify making this sort of choice with every company. Replace companies with jobseekers. Some jobseekers don't do this sort of thing. That others do doesn't justify making this sort of choice with every jobseeker. I've talked to recruiters who have been rude to me for refusing to "give a number" as in my expected salary/wages. I also do not recommend accepting offers and then backing out. However, I submit that there is no company, even if you founded it yourself, that deserves your loyalty forever.
ryanbrunner 4y ago
It's obviously impossible to say anything universal here, but in my experience, you could restate that statement as "Some companies haven't had to do this sort of thing yet". When the viability of the company is at stake, or orders are coming from the board, no company is going to make a significant sacrifice to stay true to their word if there's no legal consequences for breaking it. Edit: to be clear, I don't mean things like knowingly lying beforehand, but if circumstances drastically changed, I would 100% expect companies to rescind outstanding offers, so I similarly wouldn't hold it against a candidate for rescinding their acceptance if their circumstances changed significantly. It's reasonable to expect both companies and candidates to act in good faith, but it's unreasonable for them to face significant hardship just to honour an offer if their situation changes.

bradlys 4y ago

It is lying. It is deceit. We just dupe people new to the industry about these tactics. It's only the veterans who know that every person and company is completely full of shit. Startups have "aspirational" speaking where they say they're using revolutionary "AI" and yadda-yadda to do such and such - even if they don't have any of that and there's nothing actually on the roadmap for it. It's a lie. You may want it but you don't. If I say I have a billion dollars and fly to the moon on weekends - am I lying if I don't actually? In your words - no. I'm being "aspirational".

djbusby 4y ago
So...Coinbase should keep the offer even if it makes bad financial sense? It was true when they made the offer, time passes and things changed, now it's not true. It's a lie if it's false when you say it - not if it becomes false in the unpredictable future.
- ramsj 4y ago
  So...Job seekers should commit to an acceptance even if it makes bad financial/personal sense? It was true when they accepted the offer, time passes and things changed (e.g., got a better offer), now it's not true.
  - runnerup 4y ago
    Maybe the job seeker could offer to work for free for the number of hours they'd be contractually entitled to in severance payments if they were fired their first week on the job. Usually that's zero.
- MikeTheGreat 4y ago
  > So...Coinbase should keep the offer even if it makes bad financial sense? How about Coinbase withdraws the offer AND gives the former-future-employee some money to reflect the fact that Coinbase really did want to hire them but now genuinely can't AND that this change has a real and negative impact on the former-future-employee? Like, a payment on the order of a month or two of living costs (not just "Sorry, and here's $100") Sure that's expensive, but it's still cheaper than hiring the person for months of time, what with salary, benefits, office and equipment costs, etc.

runamok 4y ago

I mean if a business's fortunes change this quickly it usually means the leadership has no clue. Their job is to be able to accurately forecast all kinds of things at least up to the next few quarters.