3 ms·

Municipalities already vote to put people in charge, who then negotiate the contracts. However, the police unions are very good at negotiating a contract that g

Municipalities already vote to put people in charge, who then negotiate the contracts. However, the police unions are very good at negotiating a contract that gives them the maximal amount of latitude that they can negotiate. Which is fine, but when the Democratic party _and_ the Republican party run candidates who do not push back against police unions (primarily because the police unions fundraise for them), how does a "market" make this any better? There is not an idle set of police officers just waiting around to bid lower and win a new contract. That's not how a union works, and I doubt that any police officer would willingly give up the arbitration clauses that allow them to keep their jobs. If your response is "just privatize it", I'm sorry but you're not being realistic. The problem is that the Democratic party is not interested in pushing back against police unions. There are no elected officials that are interested in pushing back against police unions because they are a strong constituency that can make or break a campaign. There are very few politicians who go against the police and still win their elections.

EGreg 4y ago
It isn’t about bidding lower. It is about innovating and being more effective. Perhaps they can get to know the locals, do pre-emptive work like Canadians, build goodwill… perhaps they can innovate on their techniques for taking down perps, use pepper spray rather than guns, or perhaps they can use bodycams and document everything. Private competition produces far better products and services than when schools and police face no market competition. At least the public should make more police work like meter-maids, carry no guns and just issue citations for dog poop or barbecuing without a license. Why come armed to the teeth when Barbecue Becky calls?
- sc68cal 4y ago
  Privatizing police forces will not make them more accountable. If they are not accountable now as a public good, how would them being private somehow improve that? The only comparable example was charter schools and the results were they cost the taxpayers more, and had worse outcomes, and rarely is their charter revoked for poor performance because they hire the sons of politicians, like Chakrah Fattah's son was before both were charged for corruption, in the case of Philly charter schools.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    Because if a better police agency with better results comes along, the neighborhood will simply award the police agencies the contract. How is Gilette accountable for making razors worse than other brands? You stop buying them, that's how.
    - sc68cal 4y ago
      A police force is not like picking your razor blade at the store. How is there enough space in a market to have multiple police companies, when most municipalities are going to award a _single_ contract to cover the police work for that municipality. If there is only one contract to award, that means one police company would win and the others go out of business, or leave the "market" and go somewhere else. That is a natural monopoly, and all you have done is replicated the same issues as a public police force that the politicians are not willing to challenge, except now you have a private monopoly where you can't force any changes or accountability because there's no other competitors. The "market" does not make things intrinsically better.
      - EGreg 4y ago
        How do companies compete for business from cities and neighborhoods? You should look up "enterprise sales" on HN, lol Google "New Jersey Townships" and see how many there are. Companies can sell smart city services to cities, why not this? You'd be surprised but many religious communities do have their own para-police forces, like Shomrim, and also their own ambulances etc. Caution: What you DON'T want to happen is overlapping fire brigades or police forces like NYC's metropolitan police vs municipal police, or bowery boys vs black joke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zoXk1vnmcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zoXk1vnmcg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_riot

EGreg 4y ago

It isn’t about bidding lower. It is about innovating and being more effective. Perhaps they can get to know the locals, do pre-emptive work like Canadians, build goodwill… perhaps they can innovate on their techniques for taking down perps, use pepper spray rather than guns, or perhaps they can use bodycams and document everything. Private competition produces far better products and services than when schools and police face no market competition. At least the public should make more police work like meter-maids, carry no guns and just issue citations for dog poop or barbecuing without a license. Why come armed to the teeth when Barbecue Becky calls?

sc68cal 4y ago
Privatizing police forces will not make them more accountable. If they are not accountable now as a public good, how would them being private somehow improve that? The only comparable example was charter schools and the results were they cost the taxpayers more, and had worse outcomes, and rarely is their charter revoked for poor performance because they hire the sons of politicians, like Chakrah Fattah's son was before both were charged for corruption, in the case of Philly charter schools.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Because if a better police agency with better results comes along, the neighborhood will simply award the police agencies the contract. How is Gilette accountable for making razors worse than other brands? You stop buying them, that's how.
  - sc68cal 4y ago
    A police force is not like picking your razor blade at the store. How is there enough space in a market to have multiple police companies, when most municipalities are going to award a _single_ contract to cover the police work for that municipality. If there is only one contract to award, that means one police company would win and the others go out of business, or leave the "market" and go somewhere else. That is a natural monopoly, and all you have done is replicated the same issues as a public police force that the politicians are not willing to challenge, except now you have a private monopoly where you can't force any changes or accountability because there's no other competitors. The "market" does not make things intrinsically better.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      How do companies compete for business from cities and neighborhoods? You should look up "enterprise sales" on HN, lol Google "New Jersey Townships" and see how many there are. Companies can sell smart city services to cities, why not this? You'd be surprised but many religious communities do have their own para-police forces, like Shomrim, and also their own ambulances etc. Caution: What you DON'T want to happen is overlapping fire brigades or police forces like NYC's metropolitan police vs municipal police, or bowery boys vs black joke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zoXk1vnmcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zoXk1vnmcg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_riot