5 ms·

Ten easy ways to attract women to your free software project

8 points by ash 18y ago

cujo 18y ago
And make sure your article on the subject comes off as extremely patronizing. That always works.
- boredguy8 18y ago
  If this is the most patronizing thing a woman in IT hears, they should consider themselves lucky. I've seen worse comments on HN.
swombat 18y ago
A notionally noble aim, but I agree that the article is condescending as fuck. Maybe it's aimed at recruiting "little girls" rather than "women".
sprachspiel 18y ago
This article doesn't mention the actual reason: There are very few female geeks. And geeks are those who create open source software. Women who go into computing do it in order to earn money.
- palish 18y ago
  Consider Natalya Tatarchuk: http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/ati-natalya-tatarchuk-8-14-thu/10998166/ http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/ati-natalya-tatarchuk-8-14-thu... I doubt she "went into computing to earn money" any more than anyone else.
- orib 18y ago
  Women who go into computing do it because they think that it will benefit them them more than the generalizations about women will annoy them.
- Jem 18y ago
  > Women who go into computing do it in order to earn money. Based on what evidence?
jbrun 18y ago
Can anybody say math?
dzorz 18y ago
> Things like gender status and dating information can be communicated in profiles, by those who want them, and ignored by those who don’t, eliminating the motivation for talking about it in a thread Are we talking about free software projects or dating projects?
wheels 18y ago
Honestly, this is horrible. It's actually the kind of stuff that I find pushes women out of open source projects a lot of the time. "You're different. You need special help." Women, like men, like being respected for their work. Singling them out and treating them like they're some kind of different species, usually exacerbated by unwanted sexual attention, seems to be the major annoyance. A rant of mine from a few years ago, called "Human Interface Guidelines": http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 (Note that the "full ack" comment in there is from KDE e.V.'s former president, Eva Brucherseifer.) Edit: Sidenote, these things also tend to ignore the more fundamental issue: most OSS contributors are computer scientists. There are less women studying computer science. If you want to figure out how to get more women in OSS, you have to take a step back and figure out how to get more women in CS.
yummyfajitas 18y ago
While this topic tends to attract ridiculous, poorly thought out articles, this one is the worst I've seen so far. From the article: "Everybody has a browser, but women may have less control over what equipment and software they use, especially as beginners" "Artificial distinctions like “Turing-completeness” are a silly way to divide the world" And my absolute favorite: "Emphasize community process over manufacturing products" Turn a a software project into a social event. That's sure to attract women. It won't create software, but at least women will be involved.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
sanj 18y ago
Wow, this really is awful. Half my team is women. They're also both parents, brilliant, brutally honest, and a joy to work with. I've "found" that if you treat women -- like all humans -- with respect and loyalty you're pretty much done. But what really annoys me is the fact that people think "It matters when you have kids, it really does." only applies to women. If you're a guy with kids and having kids doesn't matter, then I think you should find a different hobby than pretending to be a father. Golf perhaps. I've found that parents, regardless of gender, require additional flexibility in their schedule. You could argue that this is self-serving because I'm parent, but it is also true.
- msg 18y ago
  Well said. My wife and child have some special needs as well. There's more than one way for developers to be on the hook, if they care about their families.
maxklein 18y ago
And THAT's why there are no women in free software projects!
tdavis 18y ago
I've also heard their periods attract bears. Just something to look out for. From the pictures to the actual article, I'd swear this was created in the 70s.
biohacker42 18y ago
This is the stupidest caricature of women I've seen in a long time. Who's voting it up?
- gaius 18y ago
  I think it's being upvoted for the lulz.
ken 18y ago
I'm offended by this article as a man. "Macho superiority contests are generally boring to women, and let’s face it, they’re dumb" "Women don’t like to “blow their own horns”, but they love to be appreciated, and they’ll do more work when they are" "Women like working cooperatively, they don’t just tolerate it" "Even if women do have the control they need to install development environments, they generally don’t want to waste as much time “fiddling with the tools”, and want fewer obstacles to simply getting the job done" "Pairs programming is a very “feminine” way to work" I've considered using a female name online just to avoid being stereotyped like this. Apparently my Y chromosome makes me a macho horn-tooting uncooperative tool-fiddling loner.
jrockway 18y ago
Wow, this is perhaps the worst article I've ever read in my life. Very low on facts, very high on random statements passed off on facts. Not good. I don't think the author has ever been involved with a real open source project before. It seems like he just has some ideal of what "open source" is and thinks that's reality. His ideal seems to be lots of constructive discussion and the open exchange of ideas. That's nice, but we already have the ideas. What most projects need to do is actually write the code. All easily-accessible discussion forums do is create lots of bikeshedding that wastes the time of people actually trying to do work. )Interestingly, the bikeshedders tend to find mailing lists "too hard to use" while the people actually writing code wouldn't use anything else. Do you really wonder why developer discussion forums aren't web-based?) The thing about flat conversation is also junk. I've used forums with flat comment systems before. Basically, there is no organization and no discussion happens, everyone just posts their feel-good thoughts about the original article. Do not want. (See Metafilter for an example of this.) I agree that wikis are a nice place for creating documentation, but wtf is this: "Everybody has a browser, but women may have less control over what equipment and software they use, especially as beginners." WTF? Every woman I know has her computer set up exactly the way she needs it to get work done. That includes lots of specific tools. The advice about using a high-level language is good. Low level languages suck and are horrible historical artifacts that need to die. But all of the reasons the author gives are terrible -- "A language that emphasizes readability, like Python, can make recovering from an interruption easier, and less time is wasted as a result." Do you have any data, or did you just pull that out of your ass? The syntax of a language is not what makes code hard to read -- the interactions between various parts of the program is. You can make the interactions easy to understand in any langauge, or you can make them completely unreadable. Python is no magic bullet. The rest of the article is just tedious and continues to be a bunch of opinions the author passes off as fact. How hard is it to say those two little words, “Thank you”? Men often won’t care (but some will). Women often will care, and the cold shoulder of not responding to a contribution with some kind of acknowledgment is truly unacceptable I'm a guy, and I care. I get upset when people say, "your software sucks!" and I like it when people say "jrockway++". This is human nature, not some property only shared by women. (After a while it becomes pretty easy to ignore criticism, however. Having a thick skin is always good.) Anyway, terrible article. Next time do some research instead of making shit up.
yan 18y ago
I looked at the top of the article, expecting to find: By: Ron Burgundy

8 points by ash 18y ago

cujo 18y ago

And make sure your article on the subject comes off as extremely patronizing. That always works.

boredguy8 18y ago
If this is the most patronizing thing a woman in IT hears, they should consider themselves lucky. I've seen worse comments on HN.

swombat 18y ago

A notionally noble aim, but I agree that the article is condescending as fuck. Maybe it's aimed at recruiting "little girls" rather than "women".

sprachspiel 18y ago

This article doesn't mention the actual reason: There are very few female geeks. And geeks are those who create open source software. Women who go into computing do it in order to earn money.

palish 18y ago
Consider Natalya Tatarchuk: http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/ati-natalya-tatarchuk-8-14-thu/10998166/ http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/ati-natalya-tatarchuk-8-14-thu... I doubt she "went into computing to earn money" any more than anyone else.
orib 18y ago
Women who go into computing do it because they think that it will benefit them them more than the generalizations about women will annoy them.
Jem 18y ago
> Women who go into computing do it in order to earn money. Based on what evidence?

jbrun 18y ago

Can anybody say math?

dzorz 18y ago

> Things like gender status and dating information can be communicated in profiles, by those who want them, and ignored by those who don’t, eliminating the motivation for talking about it in a thread Are we talking about free software projects or dating projects?

wheels 18y ago

Honestly, this is horrible. It's actually the kind of stuff that I find pushes women out of open source projects a lot of the time. "You're different. You need special help." Women, like men, like being respected for their work. Singling them out and treating them like they're some kind of different species, usually exacerbated by unwanted sexual attention, seems to be the major annoyance. A rant of mine from a few years ago, called "Human Interface Guidelines": http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 (Note that the "full ack" comment in there is from KDE e.V.'s former president, Eva Brucherseifer.) Edit: Sidenote, these things also tend to ignore the more fundamental issue: most OSS contributors are computer scientists. There are less women studying computer science. If you want to figure out how to get more women in OSS, you have to take a step back and figure out how to get more women in CS.

yummyfajitas 18y ago

While this topic tends to attract ridiculous, poorly thought out articles, this one is the worst I've seen so far. From the article: "Everybody has a browser, but women may have less control over what equipment and software they use, especially as beginners" "Artificial distinctions like “Turing-completeness” are a silly way to divide the world" And my absolute favorite: "Emphasize community process over manufacturing products" Turn a a software project into a social event. That's sure to attract women. It won't create software, but at least women will be involved.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

sanj 18y ago

Wow, this really is awful. Half my team is women. They're also both parents, brilliant, brutally honest, and a joy to work with. I've "found" that if you treat women -- like all humans -- with respect and loyalty you're pretty much done. But what really annoys me is the fact that people think "It matters when you have kids, it really does." only applies to women. If you're a guy with kids and having kids doesn't matter, then I think you should find a different hobby than pretending to be a father. Golf perhaps. I've found that parents, regardless of gender, require additional flexibility in their schedule. You could argue that this is self-serving because I'm parent, but it is also true.

msg 18y ago
Well said. My wife and child have some special needs as well. There's more than one way for developers to be on the hook, if they care about their families.

maxklein 18y ago

And THAT's why there are no women in free software projects!

tdavis 18y ago

I've also heard their periods attract bears. Just something to look out for. From the pictures to the actual article, I'd swear this was created in the 70s.

biohacker42 18y ago

This is the stupidest caricature of women I've seen in a long time. Who's voting it up?

gaius 18y ago
I think it's being upvoted for the lulz.

ken 18y ago

I'm offended by this article as a man. "Macho superiority contests are generally boring to women, and let’s face it, they’re dumb" "Women don’t like to “blow their own horns”, but they love to be appreciated, and they’ll do more work when they are" "Women like working cooperatively, they don’t just tolerate it" "Even if women do have the control they need to install development environments, they generally don’t want to waste as much time “fiddling with the tools”, and want fewer obstacles to simply getting the job done" "Pairs programming is a very “feminine” way to work" I've considered using a female name online just to avoid being stereotyped like this. Apparently my Y chromosome makes me a macho horn-tooting uncooperative tool-fiddling loner.

jrockway 18y ago

Wow, this is perhaps the worst article I've ever read in my life. Very low on facts, very high on random statements passed off on facts. Not good. I don't think the author has ever been involved with a real open source project before. It seems like he just has some ideal of what "open source" is and thinks that's reality. His ideal seems to be lots of constructive discussion and the open exchange of ideas. That's nice, but we already have the ideas. What most projects need to do is actually write the code. All easily-accessible discussion forums do is create lots of bikeshedding that wastes the time of people actually trying to do work. )Interestingly, the bikeshedders tend to find mailing lists "too hard to use" while the people actually writing code wouldn't use anything else. Do you really wonder why developer discussion forums aren't web-based?) The thing about flat conversation is also junk. I've used forums with flat comment systems before. Basically, there is no organization and no discussion happens, everyone just posts their feel-good thoughts about the original article. Do not want. (See Metafilter for an example of this.) I agree that wikis are a nice place for creating documentation, but wtf is this: "Everybody has a browser, but women may have less control over what equipment and software they use, especially as beginners." WTF? Every woman I know has her computer set up exactly the way she needs it to get work done. That includes lots of specific tools. The advice about using a high-level language is good. Low level languages suck and are horrible historical artifacts that need to die. But all of the reasons the author gives are terrible -- "A language that emphasizes readability, like Python, can make recovering from an interruption easier, and less time is wasted as a result." Do you have any data, or did you just pull that out of your ass? The syntax of a language is not what makes code hard to read -- the interactions between various parts of the program is. You can make the interactions easy to understand in any langauge, or you can make them completely unreadable. Python is no magic bullet. The rest of the article is just tedious and continues to be a bunch of opinions the author passes off as fact. How hard is it to say those two little words, “Thank you”? Men often won’t care (but some will). Women often will care, and the cold shoulder of not responding to a contribution with some kind of acknowledgment is truly unacceptable I'm a guy, and I care. I get upset when people say, "your software sucks!" and I like it when people say "jrockway++". This is human nature, not some property only shared by women. (After a while it becomes pretty easy to ignore criticism, however. Having a thick skin is always good.) Anyway, terrible article. Next time do some research instead of making shit up.

yan 18y ago

I looked at the top of the article, expecting to find: By: Ron Burgundy