4 ms·

For many who are just getting comfortable with the concept of media criticism more broadly, the wordiness and detail of writers like Greenwald and Taibbi can be

by uoaei 4y ago

For many who are just getting comfortable with the concept of media criticism more broadly, the wordiness and detail of writers like Greenwald and Taibbi can be enchanting, but that's exactly how reactionaries drive engagement -- by seeming like the heady adult in the room, despite their very predictable arguments and abandonment of "journalism" per se, toward "political commentary".

meowface 4y ago
Who is a good independent journalist/blogger? (I'm not even going to ask "who are some" - I'd be happy with just a single person.) I've also found myself disappointed by those two, even if they're not as bad as CNN/Fox or whatever. They're "independent journalists" as a profession, rather than journalists who happen to be independent.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  I think independence can be greatly overrated. Real news requires resources to investigate, gather, corroborate, etc. An truly independent blogger has little ability to do that.
user3939382 4y ago
That’s a very condescending position, that only those with a lack of exposure would find these sources compelling because they’ve been hoodwinked by their writing style. You go on to cite Glenn Greenwald as an example of not a real journalist, who has a Pulitzer Prize and founded a gigantic news organization. Glenn Greenwald doesn’t “seem like” the adult in the room, he is. The corporate media meanwhile almost exclusively provides commentary on stories from news wires, and where they do break stories, have many times turned out to be false, politically motivated, and never retracted. Chris Hedges spent years of his career in active conflict zones. Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate, Matt Taibbi — these guys have done tons of original investigative journalism. Your criticism doesn’t land.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > You go on to cite Glenn Greenwald as an example of not a real journalist, who has a Pulitzer Prize and founded a gigantic news organization. Greenwald clearly was a real journalist, but also fairly overtly quit real journalism specifically over journalistic integrity standards (standards which, even prior to his departure, he had, somewhat unusually, left to others when founding a “gigantic news organization”, fairly overtly because while he at the time recognized their importance to journalism, they were not what interested him about it.) I would never accuse Greenwald of being incapable of real journalism, only as having, after building a career in it, decided his calling is in building a personal brand in ideological commentary unconstrained by the norms of journalistic integrity.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    > unconstrained by the norms of journalistic integrity I cannot imagine how you arrive at that conclusion. He sacrificed his position and salary at the organization he founded because he was the one with integrity. He refused to have his anti-Biden article about the Hunter Biden laptop blocked by The Intercept's editor: https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-quits-the-intercept-over-hunter-biden-article/ https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-quits-the-inte... Which the New York Times 17 months later quietly comes out and admits was real https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-tax-bill-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-... "The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation" What it sounds like to me -- is that you disagree with Greenwald's political positions so are attacking his integrity with no evidence.
    - uoaei 4y ago
      His leaving The Intercept apparently consumed all of his "integrity" stores because he hasn't demonstrated a single bit since that departure, in my measure.
- uoaei 4y ago
  I don't lump Hedges, Blumenthal, or Mate in with Greenwald. Greenwald excised himself from that cohort by turning away from journalism and toward primetime tantrums on Fox News.
carnagestorm 4y ago
Maybe not following news or not caring so much about politics is the right approach? It is not exactly a conspiracy theory, unfortunately, that "elites" have the last say in political decisions[1]. Having said that and gleaning over past human history, I think the oligarchs or "elites" of our "dynasty" allowed us to enjoy more freedoms than we ever had before. I also doubt that WarnerMedia or CNN has our best interests when "reporting the news". CNN lives off of sensationalism, and it appears to be a convenient tool for a set of oligarchs to persuade folk over a political topic. Who are these oligarchs, you say? Rich people who abuse their wealth for lobbying on any matter. 1) https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...
hammock 4y ago
The Economist, the Atlantic, the New Yorker, Vanity Fair… you were saying?

by uoaei 4y ago

meowface 4y ago

Who is a good independent journalist/blogger? (I'm not even going to ask "who are some" - I'd be happy with just a single person.) I've also found myself disappointed by those two, even if they're not as bad as CNN/Fox or whatever. They're "independent journalists" as a profession, rather than journalists who happen to be independent.

wolverine876 4y ago
I think independence can be greatly overrated. Real news requires resources to investigate, gather, corroborate, etc. An truly independent blogger has little ability to do that.

user3939382 4y ago

That’s a very condescending position, that only those with a lack of exposure would find these sources compelling because they’ve been hoodwinked by their writing style. You go on to cite Glenn Greenwald as an example of not a real journalist, who has a Pulitzer Prize and founded a gigantic news organization. Glenn Greenwald doesn’t “seem like” the adult in the room, he is. The corporate media meanwhile almost exclusively provides commentary on stories from news wires, and where they do break stories, have many times turned out to be false, politically motivated, and never retracted. Chris Hedges spent years of his career in active conflict zones. Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate, Matt Taibbi — these guys have done tons of original investigative journalism. Your criticism doesn’t land.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> You go on to cite Glenn Greenwald as an example of not a real journalist, who has a Pulitzer Prize and founded a gigantic news organization. Greenwald clearly was a real journalist, but also fairly overtly quit real journalism specifically over journalistic integrity standards (standards which, even prior to his departure, he had, somewhat unusually, left to others when founding a “gigantic news organization”, fairly overtly because while he at the time recognized their importance to journalism, they were not what interested him about it.) I would never accuse Greenwald of being incapable of real journalism, only as having, after building a career in it, decided his calling is in building a personal brand in ideological commentary unconstrained by the norms of journalistic integrity.
- user3939382 4y ago
  > unconstrained by the norms of journalistic integrity I cannot imagine how you arrive at that conclusion. He sacrificed his position and salary at the organization he founded because he was the one with integrity. He refused to have his anti-Biden article about the Hunter Biden laptop blocked by The Intercept's editor: https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-quits-the-intercept-over-hunter-biden-article/ https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-quits-the-inte... Which the New York Times 17 months later quietly comes out and admits was real https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-tax-bill-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-... "The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation" What it sounds like to me -- is that you disagree with Greenwald's political positions so are attacking his integrity with no evidence.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    His leaving The Intercept apparently consumed all of his "integrity" stores because he hasn't demonstrated a single bit since that departure, in my measure.
uoaei 4y ago
I don't lump Hedges, Blumenthal, or Mate in with Greenwald. Greenwald excised himself from that cohort by turning away from journalism and toward primetime tantrums on Fox News.

carnagestorm 4y ago

Maybe not following news or not caring so much about politics is the right approach? It is not exactly a conspiracy theory, unfortunately, that "elites" have the last say in political decisions[1]. Having said that and gleaning over past human history, I think the oligarchs or "elites" of our "dynasty" allowed us to enjoy more freedoms than we ever had before. I also doubt that WarnerMedia or CNN has our best interests when "reporting the news". CNN lives off of sensationalism, and it appears to be a convenient tool for a set of oligarchs to persuade folk over a political topic. Who are these oligarchs, you say? Rich people who abuse their wealth for lobbying on any matter. 1) https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

hammock 4y ago

The Economist, the Atlantic, the New Yorker, Vanity Fair… you were saying?