4 ms·

Is anything you're attributing to "progressives" not a quality of "conservatives" as well? Attributing flaws in a system to one particular group is a common rhe

Is anything you're attributing to "progressives" not a quality of "conservatives" as well? Attributing flaws in a system to one particular group is a common rhetorical attack. People that choose a career journalism are likely motivated by thinking these issues matter, in which case having an opinion is hard to escape, or by self promotion, in which case they'll say anything that draws attention. I suspect TV leans toward the latter because it's such a shallow medium.

BitwiseFool 4y ago
>"Is anything you're attributing to "progressives" not a quality of "conservatives" as well?" I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate - keeping in mind I am not talking about all conservatives or even trying to estimate a percentage of them who fit this observation. There are many conservatives who hold an "I just want to be left alone" or "the free market will fix it" mindset. The result is that when they are upset about something, they tend to act individually and "vote with their wallet" while hoping that the silent majority will follow suit. This is not to say that conservatives don't organize protests or mass boycotts, just that it seems like they don't do so as readily because they expect the free market to produce the pressure that brings about change. Again, this isn't true for every conservative cause and certainly not the major ones like the 2nd Amendment or overturning Roe v Wade. I contrast that with how progressives tend to see problems as structural or systemic. In this worldview, they have to be active and vocal to dismantle these systems in order to bring about change. If they don't, the system will continue functioning because that is how it was designed. Because it takes much more energy to reform or replace a system than it does to maintain one, I sense progressives necessarily have to be active and vocal. Broadly speaking, I believe that conservatives expect that "system will fix it" while progressives expect to "fix the system".
- cheriot 4y ago
  You seem to be thinking of a libertarian wing of conservatism? My impression is that this is a relatively small portion of the American right. The loudest parts of the conservative movement in my lifetime have been religious conservatives, tea partiers, and now Trump nationalism. All of them have used protest, partisan media, and boycott to push their ideals. Perhaps you're comparing the conservative community you are in with progressives on TV? In which case I'd suggest that liberal communities have a mirror impression when looking at conservatives on TV.
worker_person 4y ago
It's not equal. The end game for many progressives is things like Mao China. Where millions died due to bad polices. Also Venezuela, USSR, etc. Conservatives mostly want to avoid that path, or things that take us down that path.
- rfrey 4y ago
  The end game for many progressives is policies commonplace in every other western nation, not duplication of authoritarian atrocities.
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    Yes, I too favor * Privatized postal services * Zero governmental services/benefits for illegal aliens (certainly no driver's licenses or working papers) * Point-based immigration policies, as opposed to family reunification and "diversity" visas * No "affirmative action" programs * Significantly stricter abortion windows than what Roe v. Wade imposed nationwide in the US
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > The end game for many progressives is things like Mao China. Doesn't that smack of demonization to you? It has nothing to do with progressivism, any more than all doctors lead to Joseph Mengele. Get out there and read some progressive things; go to the source; stop reading what others say about progressive ideas. It's nothing at all like what you imagine; progressive people are primarly just people, with common sense and opinions, like you.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > The end game for many progressives is things like Mao China. This is less true then “the end game for many conservatives is things like Nazi Germany”; sure, Maoists (and, if one takes “like” that somewhat more broadly, Leninist and other authoritarian Communists) exist, but even among the radical Left they are outnumbered by Anarchists, Libertarian Socialists, and other anti-authoritarians, and the whole of the radical Left is outnumbered by DemSocs and SocDems within the “progressive” space (really, the radical Left and progressives both generally view themselves as different groups, but I suspect “progressive” is being used more broadly as “people to the left of the center of the Democratic Party”.) OTOH, fairly overt authoritarian White Nationalists/Supremacists (and overlapping but not identical authoritarian theocrats) make up a lot bigger share of the local right (Republican and further right) than authoritarian Communists do of the local left (Democratic and further left.) But, while we should not ignore the dangerous agenda of certain extremists of either side, and while extremists actions may occasionally merit a particular focussed response, it doesn't really make sense to judge either side by its radical fringe alone.

BitwiseFool 4y ago

>"Is anything you're attributing to "progressives" not a quality of "conservatives" as well?" I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate - keeping in mind I am not talking about all conservatives or even trying to estimate a percentage of them who fit this observation. There are many conservatives who hold an "I just want to be left alone" or "the free market will fix it" mindset. The result is that when they are upset about something, they tend to act individually and "vote with their wallet" while hoping that the silent majority will follow suit. This is not to say that conservatives don't organize protests or mass boycotts, just that it seems like they don't do so as readily because they expect the free market to produce the pressure that brings about change. Again, this isn't true for every conservative cause and certainly not the major ones like the 2nd Amendment or overturning Roe v Wade. I contrast that with how progressives tend to see problems as structural or systemic. In this worldview, they have to be active and vocal to dismantle these systems in order to bring about change. If they don't, the system will continue functioning because that is how it was designed. Because it takes much more energy to reform or replace a system than it does to maintain one, I sense progressives necessarily have to be active and vocal. Broadly speaking, I believe that conservatives expect that "system will fix it" while progressives expect to "fix the system".

cheriot 4y ago
You seem to be thinking of a libertarian wing of conservatism? My impression is that this is a relatively small portion of the American right. The loudest parts of the conservative movement in my lifetime have been religious conservatives, tea partiers, and now Trump nationalism. All of them have used protest, partisan media, and boycott to push their ideals. Perhaps you're comparing the conservative community you are in with progressives on TV? In which case I'd suggest that liberal communities have a mirror impression when looking at conservatives on TV.

worker_person 4y ago

It's not equal. The end game for many progressives is things like Mao China. Where millions died due to bad polices. Also Venezuela, USSR, etc. Conservatives mostly want to avoid that path, or things that take us down that path.

rfrey 4y ago
The end game for many progressives is policies commonplace in every other western nation, not duplication of authoritarian atrocities.
- TMWNN 4y ago
  Yes, I too favor * Privatized postal services * Zero governmental services/benefits for illegal aliens (certainly no driver's licenses or working papers) * Point-based immigration policies, as opposed to family reunification and "diversity" visas * No "affirmative action" programs * Significantly stricter abortion windows than what Roe v. Wade imposed nationwide in the US
wolverine876 4y ago
> The end game for many progressives is things like Mao China. Doesn't that smack of demonization to you? It has nothing to do with progressivism, any more than all doctors lead to Joseph Mengele. Get out there and read some progressive things; go to the source; stop reading what others say about progressive ideas. It's nothing at all like what you imagine; progressive people are primarly just people, with common sense and opinions, like you.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> The end game for many progressives is things like Mao China. This is less true then “the end game for many conservatives is things like Nazi Germany”; sure, Maoists (and, if one takes “like” that somewhat more broadly, Leninist and other authoritarian Communists) exist, but even among the radical Left they are outnumbered by Anarchists, Libertarian Socialists, and other anti-authoritarians, and the whole of the radical Left is outnumbered by DemSocs and SocDems within the “progressive” space (really, the radical Left and progressives both generally view themselves as different groups, but I suspect “progressive” is being used more broadly as “people to the left of the center of the Democratic Party”.) OTOH, fairly overt authoritarian White Nationalists/Supremacists (and overlapping but not identical authoritarian theocrats) make up a lot bigger share of the local right (Republican and further right) than authoritarian Communists do of the local left (Democratic and further left.) But, while we should not ignore the dangerous agenda of certain extremists of either side, and while extremists actions may occasionally merit a particular focussed response, it doesn't really make sense to judge either side by its radical fringe alone.