4 ms·

>if you dont see "abolish the police and all prisons" and "forgive all student debt", you aren't looking at far left content. I never took the "defund the poli

>if you dont see "abolish the police and all prisons" and "forgive all student debt", you aren't looking at far left content. I never took the "defund the police" movement as "abolish the police." I thought equating it to "abolish the police" was just a right wing hit-job.

tablespoon 4y ago
> I never took the "defund the police" movement as "abolish the police." I thought equating it to "abolish the police" was just a right wing hit-job. No, not really. Some on the left actually took it that far. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol... > Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police > By Mariame Kaba (Ms. Kaba is an organizer against criminalization.) > ...I’ve been advocating the abolition of the police for years. Regardless of your view on police power — whether you want to get rid of the police or simply to make them less violent — here’s an immediate demand we can all make: Cut the number of police in half and cut their budget in half. Fewer police officers equals fewer opportunities for them to brutalize and kill people. The idea is gaining traction in Minneapolis, Dallas, Los Angeles and other cities. > ...People like me who want to abolish prisons and police, however, have a vision of a different society, built on cooperation instead of individualism, on mutual aid instead of self-preservation. What would the country look like if it had billions of extra dollars to spend on housing, food and education for all? This change in society wouldn’t happen immediately, but the protests show that many people are ready to embrace a different vision of safety and justice. That was published a couple weeks after George Floyd's death.
Karunamon 4y ago
It is just a little bit disingenuous to demand people not take demands at their face, plain English value, and instead to somehow infer that something less extreme is meant. I mean, "reform" is right there...
- Clubber 4y ago
  Defund doesn't mean zero. Defund means -10%, -20%, -50%. I think many police departments could certainly use a haircut. When you get stopped and 6 cops show up, it's because they have nothing to do. EDIT: Wow, I didn't think a rational person would think defund meant completely getting rid of police. There are plenty of examples of where defund doesn't mean 100%. During the Reagan administration, the federal government greatly defunded state colleges and universities. Politicians talk about defunding medicare. People talk about defunding the military. To get states to adopt the minimum drinking age of 21, they threatened to defund highway federal highway funding. None of these are 100% removal of funding.
  - dbrueck 4y ago
    Most dictionaries (at least from a cursory Googling) disagree with you: "prevent from continuing to receive funds." "to stop providing money for something" "To stop the flow of funds to" "to withdraw financial support from" "to deplete the financial resources of" But Cambridge at least gives you your 2nd meaning as an alternate: "to stop providing money or as much money to pay for something" EDIT: Oof, and the Cambridge definition was changed sometime after Dec 2020 to give it that more broad definition: https://web.archive.org/web/20201207142418/https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/defund https://web.archive.org/web/20201207142418/https://dictionar...
    - puffoflogic 4y ago
      For more examples of the phenomenon you mention in your edit, compare definitions of the word "vaccine" from 5 years ago to today.
  - BitwiseFool 4y ago
    I do not understand the attachment to the slogan "Defund the Police". If a slogan requires a much longer explanation essentially explaining "what we really mean is", then it isn't a good slogan. Especially considering there are better word choices such as "Demilitarize the Police". Ultimately, 'defund' - to most people - doesn't mean reform. Insisting that the vernacular is incorrect is just fighting an uphill battle.
krapp 4y ago
It meant exactly "abolish the police" until mainstream progressives and politicians appropriated it and watered it down to make it palatable.

tablespoon 4y ago

> I never took the "defund the police" movement as "abolish the police." I thought equating it to "abolish the police" was just a right wing hit-job. No, not really. Some on the left actually took it that far. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol... > Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police > By Mariame Kaba (Ms. Kaba is an organizer against criminalization.) > ...I’ve been advocating the abolition of the police for years. Regardless of your view on police power — whether you want to get rid of the police or simply to make them less violent — here’s an immediate demand we can all make: Cut the number of police in half and cut their budget in half. Fewer police officers equals fewer opportunities for them to brutalize and kill people. The idea is gaining traction in Minneapolis, Dallas, Los Angeles and other cities. > ...People like me who want to abolish prisons and police, however, have a vision of a different society, built on cooperation instead of individualism, on mutual aid instead of self-preservation. What would the country look like if it had billions of extra dollars to spend on housing, food and education for all? This change in society wouldn’t happen immediately, but the protests show that many people are ready to embrace a different vision of safety and justice. That was published a couple weeks after George Floyd's death.

Karunamon 4y ago

It is just a little bit disingenuous to demand people not take demands at their face, plain English value, and instead to somehow infer that something less extreme is meant. I mean, "reform" is right there...

Clubber 4y ago
Defund doesn't mean zero. Defund means -10%, -20%, -50%. I think many police departments could certainly use a haircut. When you get stopped and 6 cops show up, it's because they have nothing to do. EDIT: Wow, I didn't think a rational person would think defund meant completely getting rid of police. There are plenty of examples of where defund doesn't mean 100%. During the Reagan administration, the federal government greatly defunded state colleges and universities. Politicians talk about defunding medicare. People talk about defunding the military. To get states to adopt the minimum drinking age of 21, they threatened to defund highway federal highway funding. None of these are 100% removal of funding.
- dbrueck 4y ago
  Most dictionaries (at least from a cursory Googling) disagree with you: "prevent from continuing to receive funds." "to stop providing money for something" "To stop the flow of funds to" "to withdraw financial support from" "to deplete the financial resources of" But Cambridge at least gives you your 2nd meaning as an alternate: "to stop providing money or as much money to pay for something" EDIT: Oof, and the Cambridge definition was changed sometime after Dec 2020 to give it that more broad definition: https://web.archive.org/web/20201207142418/https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/defund https://web.archive.org/web/20201207142418/https://dictionar...
  - puffoflogic 4y ago
    For more examples of the phenomenon you mention in your edit, compare definitions of the word "vaccine" from 5 years ago to today.
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  I do not understand the attachment to the slogan "Defund the Police". If a slogan requires a much longer explanation essentially explaining "what we really mean is", then it isn't a good slogan. Especially considering there are better word choices such as "Demilitarize the Police". Ultimately, 'defund' - to most people - doesn't mean reform. Insisting that the vernacular is incorrect is just fighting an uphill battle.

krapp 4y ago

It meant exactly "abolish the police" until mainstream progressives and politicians appropriated it and watered it down to make it palatable.