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Regarding Arestovich: he didn’t just predict it. He openly advocated and implemented politically and militarily aggressive actions (while opposing the Minsk/Nor

by EGreg 4y ago

Regarding Arestovich: he didn’t just predict it. He openly advocated and implemented politically and militarily aggressive actions (while opposing the Minsk/Normandy diplomatic process or endfranchisement of millions of pro Russians) leading to a “big war with 99.9% certainty” as he himself admitted. Arestovich justified this by unilaterally insisting on a false dichotomy and emphatically ruling out what he called “gradually being absorbed by Russia in 10 years” (while being totally OK being “absorbed by EU” and many countries are “absorbed by USA” are somehow considered lucky by people like him). He figures that, since he is a genius at figuring out HOW the Russians will attack, he also knows better than millions of his countrymen that “being absorbed by Russia” is far worse than “a big war” (in which neither he himself nor most politicians won’t be on the front lines). And he is willing to make the decision for them. Whether or not he is “objectively” right, this is just evidence of the arrogance and motivations of the politicians and that this war wasn’t “totally unprovoked”. He and people like him got into a position of power - advising or exerting influence on the President and the entire government - and their ACTIONS led away from diplomacy and towards war — which you can clearly see he welcomed. I gave this as a clear example of the mentality that we must disenfranchise and deplatform all pro Russian voices same way Uncle Toms, Nazi sympathizers and White Supremacists get marginalized… and then rip the 11 million people and their families gradually away from Russian language, politics, economics and so on. Ukraine had pro West people, pro Russian people and those who wanted total independence from empires. The second one of those was to be gradually eliminated after Yanukovich and Opposition Bloc destroyed. That’s millions of voters. Many imperialists in the USA and Britain were only too happy to “lure Ukraine away” like a guy who has an affair with a man’s wife. While giving them weapons to pummel the pro Russians with, they made sure to bury any chance of Minsk II being implemented. France and Germany tried to create opportunities for dialogue to finally implement Minsk II with the Normandy format but show me one place where US and Britain did anything other than try to pull Ukraine AWAY from the negotiating table with Russia. That’s what empires do, but USA does it 3000 miles away which is unusual in the last 100 years. It’s like the entire world is the USA’s colonial protectorate.

eveningcoffee 4y ago
I see that you are not willing to conduct a honest discussion. Only thing I wonder about is how is it possible that the rhetoric and vocabulary you are using is too damn similar to Russian trolls. I recommend you to meditate about it if you consider yourself an American. You are a prime example that shows that whataboutism is exactly what it is thought to be.
- EGreg 4y ago
  I asked you two direct questions, asked you to answer them, and you ignored them both times. Then you say that I am not willing to conduct an honest discussion. Please see the sibling comment below, and answer my two questions. I can assure you (and you can verify by my entire posting history) that I am interested ONLY in good-faith honest discussions. > Only thing I wonder about is how is it possible that the rhetoric and vocabulary you are using is too damn similar to Russian trolls. Actually, it is similar to Noam Chomsky and other antiwar intellectuals who have been decrying imperialism for decades. Do Russian trolls condemn Russia's invasion? Because I do. I simply put it in context, that it's one of many invasions and occupations by empires like USA and China. They all resulted in a lot of misery. But the solution is to prevent them from happening, and to push all politicians towards diplomacy. We must fix the system instead of hysterically talking about one example, not even the largest one at the current moment, of a country attacking another country and killing civilians, while ignoring all others. So now for the whataboutism. Just for context, in Ukraine, the UN figures say 4 thousand civilians died. In Yemen and Ethiopia, the figure is far higher, and for years no one in the White, Christian liberal west seems to know or can even name who is involved: https://www.rescue.org/article/crisis-yemen-protracted-conflict-pushes-yemenis-deeper-need https://www.rescue.org/article/crisis-yemen-protracted-confl... https://www.refugeesinternational.org/stop-tigray-famine https://www.refugeesinternational.org/stop-tigray-famine Do YOU care? Have you donated to the refugees even 1% of what you donated to weapons for Ukraine? Have you picked a side that's 100% wrong and will be sponsoring weapons for the other? Don't worry, USA has done that for you and has been sending weapons to Saudis for years: https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/09/02/yemen-coalition-bus-bombing-apparent-war-crime https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/09/02/yemen-coalition-bus-bomb... Prolonging the war in Ukraine is irresponsible also because it can lead to widespread famine. One third of the food in Yemen comes from Ukraine, for instance. MILLIONS of people around the world have to pay for these armies to "have their fun", obviously I blame Putin for it but not ONLY Putin, while you blame ONLY Putin and have no plan for stopping the war, instead supporting the position that "we must keep fighting as long as it takes, so Putin slinks back in total defeat". Meanwhile you're perpetuating a situation causing millions of these people in much larger conflict zones to starve. Not that you said much about them this entire time (I know, I know, whataboutism). Regarding the war in Ukraine, I don't know about "Russian trolls" but if I started listing countries whose media and people feel similarly to me about USA and NATO's involvement, it might end up being over half the world. You just don't care about that part of the world. China, India, Pakistan are still doing business with Russia and resisting NATO pressure. The middle east, Saudis don't pick up the phone on Biden, and started selling oil for Chinese currency. Even Israel and Palestinians both refrained from criticizing Russia too much. Much of South America (who still harbor resentment to USA), including large countries like Brazil, refuse to take sides, and even some eastern European countries and Hungary's government are hesitant. Of course, unlike you, I am not quick to identify the population with the country's government, for that we need polls (see below). > I recommend you to meditate about it if you consider yourself an American. Yes! USA has one of the best protections for freedom of speech anywhere in the world. It is quintessentially American to be able to speak your mind. I may ask well ask you how come your rhetoric and vocabulary are so damn similar to US war hawks? Are you on John Bolton's and Hillary's payroll? Does being an American mean totally closing your eyes to what the rest of the world thinks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo... I mean even the word "American" is so chauvinistic, United States isn't all of north and south America, large countries like Canada Mexico and Brazil are also "American". > You are a prime example that shows that whataboutism is exactly what it is thought to be. Good, because it's supposed to call out total hypocrisy and double standards. Were you willing to agree that US athletes should be banned from sporting events, and crippling sanctions would be put on the USA to stop the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan, the destruction of Libya, or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Invasions_by_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Invasions_by_the_Unit... or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Can we kick Saudi Arabia off the human rights council finally? Or China? They imprisoned huge numbers of Uyghurs, Falun Dafa and so on, in re-education camps. Some even allege that they mine them for organs. The same problem exists: we don't have enough video evidence from inside. And the UN will do nothing because it's an "internal matter", just as it is in Tibet, Hong Kong and soon in Taiwan. I say the international system needs to do a lot of work to prevent human rights violations. You say... Russian man bad.

by EGreg 4y ago

eveningcoffee 4y ago

I see that you are not willing to conduct a honest discussion. Only thing I wonder about is how is it possible that the rhetoric and vocabulary you are using is too damn similar to Russian trolls. I recommend you to meditate about it if you consider yourself an American. You are a prime example that shows that whataboutism is exactly what it is thought to be.

EGreg 4y ago
I asked you two direct questions, asked you to answer them, and you ignored them both times. Then you say that I am not willing to conduct an honest discussion. Please see the sibling comment below, and answer my two questions. I can assure you (and you can verify by my entire posting history) that I am interested ONLY in good-faith honest discussions. > Only thing I wonder about is how is it possible that the rhetoric and vocabulary you are using is too damn similar to Russian trolls. Actually, it is similar to Noam Chomsky and other antiwar intellectuals who have been decrying imperialism for decades. Do Russian trolls condemn Russia's invasion? Because I do. I simply put it in context, that it's one of many invasions and occupations by empires like USA and China. They all resulted in a lot of misery. But the solution is to prevent them from happening, and to push all politicians towards diplomacy. We must fix the system instead of hysterically talking about one example, not even the largest one at the current moment, of a country attacking another country and killing civilians, while ignoring all others. So now for the whataboutism. Just for context, in Ukraine, the UN figures say 4 thousand civilians died. In Yemen and Ethiopia, the figure is far higher, and for years no one in the White, Christian liberal west seems to know or can even name who is involved: https://www.rescue.org/article/crisis-yemen-protracted-conflict-pushes-yemenis-deeper-need https://www.rescue.org/article/crisis-yemen-protracted-confl... https://www.refugeesinternational.org/stop-tigray-famine https://www.refugeesinternational.org/stop-tigray-famine Do YOU care? Have you donated to the refugees even 1% of what you donated to weapons for Ukraine? Have you picked a side that's 100% wrong and will be sponsoring weapons for the other? Don't worry, USA has done that for you and has been sending weapons to Saudis for years: https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/09/02/yemen-coalition-bus-bombing-apparent-war-crime https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/09/02/yemen-coalition-bus-bomb... Prolonging the war in Ukraine is irresponsible also because it can lead to widespread famine. One third of the food in Yemen comes from Ukraine, for instance. MILLIONS of people around the world have to pay for these armies to "have their fun", obviously I blame Putin for it but not ONLY Putin, while you blame ONLY Putin and have no plan for stopping the war, instead supporting the position that "we must keep fighting as long as it takes, so Putin slinks back in total defeat". Meanwhile you're perpetuating a situation causing millions of these people in much larger conflict zones to starve. Not that you said much about them this entire time (I know, I know, whataboutism). Regarding the war in Ukraine, I don't know about "Russian trolls" but if I started listing countries whose media and people feel similarly to me about USA and NATO's involvement, it might end up being over half the world. You just don't care about that part of the world. China, India, Pakistan are still doing business with Russia and resisting NATO pressure. The middle east, Saudis don't pick up the phone on Biden, and started selling oil for Chinese currency. Even Israel and Palestinians both refrained from criticizing Russia too much. Much of South America (who still harbor resentment to USA), including large countries like Brazil, refuse to take sides, and even some eastern European countries and Hungary's government are hesitant. Of course, unlike you, I am not quick to identify the population with the country's government, for that we need polls (see below). > I recommend you to meditate about it if you consider yourself an American. Yes! USA has one of the best protections for freedom of speech anywhere in the world. It is quintessentially American to be able to speak your mind. I may ask well ask you how come your rhetoric and vocabulary are so damn similar to US war hawks? Are you on John Bolton's and Hillary's payroll? Does being an American mean totally closing your eyes to what the rest of the world thinks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo... I mean even the word "American" is so chauvinistic, United States isn't all of north and south America, large countries like Canada Mexico and Brazil are also "American". > You are a prime example that shows that whataboutism is exactly what it is thought to be. Good, because it's supposed to call out total hypocrisy and double standards. Were you willing to agree that US athletes should be banned from sporting events, and crippling sanctions would be put on the USA to stop the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan, the destruction of Libya, or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Invasions_by_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Invasions_by_the_Unit... or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Can we kick Saudi Arabia off the human rights council finally? Or China? They imprisoned huge numbers of Uyghurs, Falun Dafa and so on, in re-education camps. Some even allege that they mine them for organs. The same problem exists: we don't have enough video evidence from inside. And the UN will do nothing because it's an "internal matter", just as it is in Tibet, Hong Kong and soon in Taiwan. I say the international system needs to do a lot of work to prevent human rights violations. You say... Russian man bad.