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Does Steve Jobs' spectacular success irritate engineers and scientists?

4 points by amichail 15y ago

After all, it does show that management and marketing skills can blow away engineering and science skills in terms of personal success and influence on the world.

vonsydov 15y ago
i.e. what your parents told you is incorrect they didn't mention you might be jealous and sad later
geophile 15y ago
I'm not irritated. Having been in many startups, I can really appreciate a good manager and a good marketer. These people are incredibly rare, and it is much more fun, (not to mention financially rewarding), to work in a company that has such people. What does irritate me is a consequence of the fact that bullshit works so well in the realms of management and marketing. It's difficult to distinguish talent from convincingly-mouthed empty words, and as a result you get idiots running companies into the ground. That's what irritates me. Especially since the idiocy is visible to me, an engineer, and not to the VCs, and sometimes not to the other execs. As for one set of skills "blowing away" another -- you need both to build a successful company.
stonemetal 15y ago
I don't know what your definition of personal success is, but if I had been Jobs I would have been an utter failure by my own personal standards. I don't think your average scientist defines success in terms of personal wealth accumulation, because they picked the wrong road to get there.
kstenerud 15y ago
Influence? Of course. You influence people, so influence is politics. Politics is perception. Shape people's perception and you gain their power for your own use. Personal success? That's a personal thing. Not everyone wants to be a big time leader. Science & engineering open up new possibilities, but nobody will go there unless someone of influence herds them into it, so it's a symbiotic relationship. The problem comes when the influencer goes astray and in doing so leads others astray.
Joakal 15y ago
There are some smart engineers and scientists who do not want to be in the spotlight because it's both a blessing and a curse. Not everyone is out for the glory. This excludes the academic community where it's more of a blessing to be popular and revered as you'll get more cooperation and less barriers.
mapster 15y ago
I would hope that an engineer or scientist is happy to be doing what they love. I imagine S. Jobs was happy building companies than being an engineer. You are successful doing what you love while earning a decent living.

4 points by amichail 15y ago

After all, it does show that management and marketing skills can blow away engineering and science skills in terms of personal success and influence on the world.

vonsydov 15y ago

i.e. what your parents told you is incorrect they didn't mention you might be jealous and sad later

geophile 15y ago

I'm not irritated. Having been in many startups, I can really appreciate a good manager and a good marketer. These people are incredibly rare, and it is much more fun, (not to mention financially rewarding), to work in a company that has such people. What does irritate me is a consequence of the fact that bullshit works so well in the realms of management and marketing. It's difficult to distinguish talent from convincingly-mouthed empty words, and as a result you get idiots running companies into the ground. That's what irritates me. Especially since the idiocy is visible to me, an engineer, and not to the VCs, and sometimes not to the other execs. As for one set of skills "blowing away" another -- you need both to build a successful company.

stonemetal 15y ago

I don't know what your definition of personal success is, but if I had been Jobs I would have been an utter failure by my own personal standards. I don't think your average scientist defines success in terms of personal wealth accumulation, because they picked the wrong road to get there.

kstenerud 15y ago

Influence? Of course. You influence people, so influence is politics. Politics is perception. Shape people's perception and you gain their power for your own use. Personal success? That's a personal thing. Not everyone wants to be a big time leader. Science & engineering open up new possibilities, but nobody will go there unless someone of influence herds them into it, so it's a symbiotic relationship. The problem comes when the influencer goes astray and in doing so leads others astray.

Joakal 15y ago

There are some smart engineers and scientists who do not want to be in the spotlight because it's both a blessing and a curse. Not everyone is out for the glory. This excludes the academic community where it's more of a blessing to be popular and revered as you'll get more cooperation and less barriers.

mapster 15y ago

I would hope that an engineer or scientist is happy to be doing what they love. I imagine S. Jobs was happy building companies than being an engineer. You are successful doing what you love while earning a decent living.