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>in 2008-2009 due to greedy mortgage investments .... also due to people taking mortgages they could not pay to try and win housing bingo. If people had not p

>in 2008-2009 due to greedy mortgage investments .... also due to people taking mortgages they could not pay to try and win housing bingo. If people had not promised to pay for mortgages they could not, lying on forms to get such mortgages, then they would not have defaulted at record rates, increasing risk for investments.

ShamelessC 4y ago
That is severely lacking in nuance to the point of coming across as tone deaf trolling.
- ChrisLomont 4y ago
  It was meant that way to counter sole blame on "due to greedy mortgage investments". And it is correct - see my other post in this thread with all the relevant FRED data series on people's finances leading up to the 2008-2009 crisis. People most certainly ran many of their own indicators to record highs before the crash, by choice, by choosing more debt than they could manage.
  - mgh2 4y ago
    Sorry to burst the bubble, but "choice" is also elite's propaganda - the own the entire vertical: https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale-4fecf8095812 https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...
    - ChrisLomont 4y ago
      Well, if you believe people don't have free will, then no sense blaming your "elite" either. Everyone is only doing what they're programmed to do, no sense in holding anyone accountable for any actions .... Or you can face that people do choose to buy things.
      - mgh2 4y ago
        There is responsibility, they are mutually exclusive
        ChrisLomont 4y ago
        Ah good. Then the people who got mortgages they could not afford are responsible, whether or not they had a choice. We agree :)
mgh2 4y ago
Who sold them the mortgages in the 1st place? Financiers - the public is just an unsuspected victim driven by survival instincts.
- ChrisLomont 4y ago
  If you believe mortgage purchasers are such idiots that they cannot understand a simple household budget, then we are all in trouble. The fact is that many, many of them were trying to win a real estate lottery. Here's [1] FRED mortgage payments as a percent of disposable income leading up the crash. Notice the record all time high? That is people choosing to run up debt for decades until it popped. Here's [2] the FRED series on household debt as percent of disposable income leading up the crash. Again, note the all time high and run up period. Here's [3] FRED series on household debt to GDP - same result. So you can claim somehow people were cattle with zero input on any financial choices or consequences, but that's simply not backed by the evidence. People were choosing to believe that the gains would never stop. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MDSP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MDSP [2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP [3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N

ShamelessC 4y ago

That is severely lacking in nuance to the point of coming across as tone deaf trolling.

ChrisLomont 4y ago
It was meant that way to counter sole blame on "due to greedy mortgage investments". And it is correct - see my other post in this thread with all the relevant FRED data series on people's finances leading up to the 2008-2009 crisis. People most certainly ran many of their own indicators to record highs before the crash, by choice, by choosing more debt than they could manage.
- mgh2 4y ago
  Sorry to burst the bubble, but "choice" is also elite's propaganda - the own the entire vertical: https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale-4fecf8095812 https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...
  - ChrisLomont 4y ago
    Well, if you believe people don't have free will, then no sense blaming your "elite" either. Everyone is only doing what they're programmed to do, no sense in holding anyone accountable for any actions .... Or you can face that people do choose to buy things.
    - mgh2 4y ago
      There is responsibility, they are mutually exclusive
      - ChrisLomont 4y ago
        Ah good. Then the people who got mortgages they could not afford are responsible, whether or not they had a choice. We agree :)

mgh2 4y ago

Who sold them the mortgages in the 1st place? Financiers - the public is just an unsuspected victim driven by survival instincts.

ChrisLomont 4y ago
If you believe mortgage purchasers are such idiots that they cannot understand a simple household budget, then we are all in trouble. The fact is that many, many of them were trying to win a real estate lottery. Here's [1] FRED mortgage payments as a percent of disposable income leading up the crash. Notice the record all time high? That is people choosing to run up debt for decades until it popped. Here's [2] the FRED series on household debt as percent of disposable income leading up the crash. Again, note the all time high and run up period. Here's [3] FRED series on household debt to GDP - same result. So you can claim somehow people were cattle with zero input on any financial choices or consequences, but that's simply not backed by the evidence. People were choosing to believe that the gains would never stop. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MDSP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MDSP [2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP [3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N