6 ms·

Speaking as someone who has met the population that gets arrested, they are no more or less scumbags than the population that doesn't.

by rascul 4y ago

i_like_apis 4y ago
If you were really speaking from a place of actually knowing the arrest population, you wouldn't say that. If you spent some time in jail or prison, you would know there is a huge difference between the normal population and the arrest population. Violence, drugs, theft, robbery, rape, (things people get arrested for) ... they're scumbags if anyone is.
- rascul 4y ago
  I have spent time in jail. I've also spent time out of jail. There's just as many scumbags outside. Lots of violent and aggressive people are not in jail, and lots of good people who didn't hurt anyone are in jail. There are a whole lot of other things besides what you list that could land you in jail.
  - i_like_apis 4y ago
    To be honest ... based on what you're saying I don't think you've really been. > There are a whole lot of other things besides what you list that could land you in jail. Incorrect. The jail population is 99% in those categories. > and lots of good people who didn't hurt anyone are in jail Also incorrect. Although, there are a lot of mentally unstable folks there, who could be considered to be a bit more innocent than the others.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      Okay buddy. I’m sure all the people In prison, not even jail, for weed related non violent issues are somehow hurting people. Your toxic world view is a neoliberals elitist status quo wet dream. Nothing more.
      - daenz 4y ago
        Only 92 people were sentenced for marijuana possession in the federal system in 2017, out of a total of nearly 20,000 drug convictions. That's about 0.5% 0. https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/annual-reports-and-sourcebooks/2017/Table33.pdf https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu...
        rascul 4y ago
        Should be much higher for the states. I can't find numbers for that, though, only drugs in general.
        skinnymuch 4y ago
        Okay? That’s federal. Why is that relevant? When you get arrested for marijuana randomly on the street in a normal state, what are the chances it’s going federal?
      - i_like_apis 4y ago
        Incarceration is mostly for violence and theft. Lots of stolen cars, lots of assaults. Quite a lot of murders. I didn't know anyone who was there for just drugs, except a few who were dealing hard drugs. (And who were coincidentally also violent thieves) If you want to understand the jail population, watch the show "lockup raw". It would give you a better picture of who is being discussed. Though it defies logic, there are a lot of people like yourself who seem to think that prisons are filled with a bunch of victims, who are just there for drug offenses. It's not true by a long shot. https://static.prisonpolicy.org/scans/whos_in_prison_for_marij.pdf https://static.prisonpolicy.org/scans/whos_in_prison_for_mar...
        skinnymuch 4y ago
        Linking to a conservative think tanks report is pretty funny. It isn’t even trying to hide its bias from the get go. It knows it audience. People who have already been instilled to vote against their self interest and who want to oppress others. I would not only link to a leftist think tank. Besides that being rarer than the propoganda of the right. It’s insulting to myself most of all (the fact I would let myself get duped by propaganda this easily) and to the people i am talking to, to do that. Also, watching a tv show? That’s the worst way to understand politics. While being the best way for basic propaganda to work on a person. Life isn’t a joke where tv shows are what should be referenced.
    - rascul 4y ago
      Most people are incarcerated for the reasons you list. [0] That doesn't necessarily make them a scumbag or a bad person in my mind, without knowing more about the situation. There are plenty of examples where it's not so clear cut, here are a few: Supposedly over 90% of convictions are from plea bargains. We'll never know how many of those people were actually innocent. CeCe McDonald may or may not be one example. [1] Anthony Gammons, Jr. may have acted in self defense for him and his child, but he wasn't legally allowed to own a firearm so he was convicted of murder. [2] Teenager gets 10 years for consensual sex. [3] Kalief Browder in jail for three years without a trial. [4] Alexander Torres wrongfully convicted for murder for 20 years. [5] When I was in jail, the few people I talked to, were in there for cannabis possession (as was I), driving without a license, and missing a jury summons. None of that necessarily makes them bad people in my mind. Maybe they are, but it would be for other reasons I'm not aware of. [0] https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p19.pdf https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p19.pdf [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CeCe_McDonald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CeCe_McDonald [2] https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2020/sep/15/indiana-supreme-court-must-be-immediate-causal-connection-between-confrontation-and-other-crime-defendant-negate-self-defense/ https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2020/sep/15/indiana-s... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_v._State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_v._State [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder [5] https://www.aol.com/news/20-years-prison-man-found-204259158.html https://www.aol.com/news/20-years-prison-man-found-204259158...
- keybored 4y ago
  At this point you (two) are just going to accuse the other of not associating with criminals under the most harsh (or harsh enough) circumstances. Maybe maximum security prison?
  - i_like_apis 4y ago
    No, my whole point is that I'm talking about the general arrest population.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

Speaking as someone who has met the population that gets arrested, they are no more or less scumbags than the population that doesn't.

by rascul 4y ago

Speaking as someone who has met the population that gets arrested, they are no more or less scumbags than the population that doesn't.

i_like_apis 4y ago

If you were really speaking from a place of actually knowing the arrest population, you wouldn't say that. If you spent some time in jail or prison, you would know there is a huge difference between the normal population and the arrest population. Violence, drugs, theft, robbery, rape, (things people get arrested for) ... they're scumbags if anyone is.

rascul 4y ago
I have spent time in jail. I've also spent time out of jail. There's just as many scumbags outside. Lots of violent and aggressive people are not in jail, and lots of good people who didn't hurt anyone are in jail. There are a whole lot of other things besides what you list that could land you in jail.
- i_like_apis 4y ago
  To be honest ... based on what you're saying I don't think you've really been. > There are a whole lot of other things besides what you list that could land you in jail. Incorrect. The jail population is 99% in those categories. > and lots of good people who didn't hurt anyone are in jail Also incorrect. Although, there are a lot of mentally unstable folks there, who could be considered to be a bit more innocent than the others.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    Okay buddy. I’m sure all the people In prison, not even jail, for weed related non violent issues are somehow hurting people. Your toxic world view is a neoliberals elitist status quo wet dream. Nothing more.
    - daenz 4y ago
      Only 92 people were sentenced for marijuana possession in the federal system in 2017, out of a total of nearly 20,000 drug convictions. That's about 0.5% 0. https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/annual-reports-and-sourcebooks/2017/Table33.pdf https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu...
      - rascul 4y ago
        Should be much higher for the states. I can't find numbers for that, though, only drugs in general.
      - skinnymuch 4y ago
        Okay? That’s federal. Why is that relevant? When you get arrested for marijuana randomly on the street in a normal state, what are the chances it’s going federal?
    - i_like_apis 4y ago
      Incarceration is mostly for violence and theft. Lots of stolen cars, lots of assaults. Quite a lot of murders. I didn't know anyone who was there for just drugs, except a few who were dealing hard drugs. (And who were coincidentally also violent thieves) If you want to understand the jail population, watch the show "lockup raw". It would give you a better picture of who is being discussed. Though it defies logic, there are a lot of people like yourself who seem to think that prisons are filled with a bunch of victims, who are just there for drug offenses. It's not true by a long shot. https://static.prisonpolicy.org/scans/whos_in_prison_for_marij.pdf https://static.prisonpolicy.org/scans/whos_in_prison_for_mar...
      - skinnymuch 4y ago
        Linking to a conservative think tanks report is pretty funny. It isn’t even trying to hide its bias from the get go. It knows it audience. People who have already been instilled to vote against their self interest and who want to oppress others. I would not only link to a leftist think tank. Besides that being rarer than the propoganda of the right. It’s insulting to myself most of all (the fact I would let myself get duped by propaganda this easily) and to the people i am talking to, to do that. Also, watching a tv show? That’s the worst way to understand politics. While being the best way for basic propaganda to work on a person. Life isn’t a joke where tv shows are what should be referenced.
  - rascul 4y ago
    Most people are incarcerated for the reasons you list. [0] That doesn't necessarily make them a scumbag or a bad person in my mind, without knowing more about the situation. There are plenty of examples where it's not so clear cut, here are a few: Supposedly over 90% of convictions are from plea bargains. We'll never know how many of those people were actually innocent. CeCe McDonald may or may not be one example. [1] Anthony Gammons, Jr. may have acted in self defense for him and his child, but he wasn't legally allowed to own a firearm so he was convicted of murder. [2] Teenager gets 10 years for consensual sex. [3] Kalief Browder in jail for three years without a trial. [4] Alexander Torres wrongfully convicted for murder for 20 years. [5] When I was in jail, the few people I talked to, were in there for cannabis possession (as was I), driving without a license, and missing a jury summons. None of that necessarily makes them bad people in my mind. Maybe they are, but it would be for other reasons I'm not aware of. [0] https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p19.pdf https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p19.pdf [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CeCe_McDonald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CeCe_McDonald [2] https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2020/sep/15/indiana-supreme-court-must-be-immediate-causal-connection-between-confrontation-and-other-crime-defendant-negate-self-defense/ https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2020/sep/15/indiana-s... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_v._State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_v._State [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder [5] https://www.aol.com/news/20-years-prison-man-found-204259158.html https://www.aol.com/news/20-years-prison-man-found-204259158...
keybored 4y ago
At this point you (two) are just going to accuse the other of not associating with criminals under the most harsh (or harsh enough) circumstances. Maybe maximum security prison?
- i_like_apis 4y ago
  No, my whole point is that I'm talking about the general arrest population.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]