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Mandating that cops enforce unpopular laws was critical to Teddy Roosevelt's reform of the NYPD to help reduce corruption. That leeway was used to solicit bribe

Mandating that cops enforce unpopular laws was critical to Teddy Roosevelt's reform of the NYPD to help reduce corruption. That leeway was used to solicit bribes, particularly to let bars open on Sundays. I think that if we removed a lot of the leeway about enforcement we would find ourselves forces to ask, "What laws do we really care about enforcing in the first place?"

SllX 4y ago
Something to consider. I once decided to see if a type of document existed—this being the internet, it was once amazing to me the things I thought might exist actually existing, maybe I should still be amazed—and the document I wanted to find was a “list of crimes” in my State. California does not (or did not) have such a list. I basically just wanted a number, and to see if there were any interesting ones I never thought of. Massachusetts actually does have such a document, and while it isn’t my State and at this point I forgot the number, there were some interesting ones at the top that basically had to do with archaeology. The US Department of Justice also doesn’t have such a list, just an FBI estimate at the time of >4,000 which means they don’t know either. I wouldn’t call it a political position because that would require further research and more time than I’m willing to commit, but I would say I have a disposition towards reducing the total number of crimes on the books, which would mean compiling a list of what they are and consolidating and repealing many of them. If we can’t be bothered to know what they are in their totality, then we probably don’t need most of them.
- karmelapple 4y ago
  Here you go, the master crime list of Massachusetts: https://www.mass.gov/doc/master-crime-list/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/master-crime-list/download Here's one that seems similar for North Dakota: https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/sites/ag/files/documents/OffenseCrossReference.pdf https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/sites/ag/files/documents/Offe...
dylan604 4y ago
And I think that is a good conversation to have. If the law is not worth enforcing, it is not worth having. Laws are meant to remove one's freedoms. Sometimes that loss is meant to protect others, but it is still the government telling its citizens they are not allowed to do something. People should have as few goverment imposed restrictions as necessary to have a functioning society.
karmelapple 4y ago
Thanks for sharing this, I hadn't heard of this. Here's Teddy Roosevelt in his own words [1] describing it: > To break up the system of blackmail and corruption was less easy. ... the criminal who is blackmailed has a direct interest in paying the blackmailer, and it is not easy to get information about it. Nevertheless, we put a complete stop to most of the blackmail by the simple process of rigorously enforcing the laws, not only against crime, but against vice. ... > The multiplication of laws by the legislature and their partial enforcement by the executive authorities go hand in hand, and offer one of the many serious problems with which we are confronted in striving to better civic conditions. New York State felt that liquor should not be sold on Sunday. The larger part of New York city wished to drink liquor on Sunday. > ... > The law was not in the least a dead-letter; it was enforced, but it was corruptly and partially enforced. > ... > The paper again and again called upon the police commissioners to either uniformly enforce the law or uniformly disregard it. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1897/09/municipal-administration-the-new-york-police-force/519849/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1897/09/municip...

SllX 4y ago

Something to consider. I once decided to see if a type of document existed—this being the internet, it was once amazing to me the things I thought might exist actually existing, maybe I should still be amazed—and the document I wanted to find was a “list of crimes” in my State. California does not (or did not) have such a list. I basically just wanted a number, and to see if there were any interesting ones I never thought of. Massachusetts actually does have such a document, and while it isn’t my State and at this point I forgot the number, there were some interesting ones at the top that basically had to do with archaeology. The US Department of Justice also doesn’t have such a list, just an FBI estimate at the time of >4,000 which means they don’t know either. I wouldn’t call it a political position because that would require further research and more time than I’m willing to commit, but I would say I have a disposition towards reducing the total number of crimes on the books, which would mean compiling a list of what they are and consolidating and repealing many of them. If we can’t be bothered to know what they are in their totality, then we probably don’t need most of them.

karmelapple 4y ago
Here you go, the master crime list of Massachusetts: https://www.mass.gov/doc/master-crime-list/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/master-crime-list/download Here's one that seems similar for North Dakota: https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/sites/ag/files/documents/OffenseCrossReference.pdf https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/sites/ag/files/documents/Offe...

dylan604 4y ago

And I think that is a good conversation to have. If the law is not worth enforcing, it is not worth having. Laws are meant to remove one's freedoms. Sometimes that loss is meant to protect others, but it is still the government telling its citizens they are not allowed to do something. People should have as few goverment imposed restrictions as necessary to have a functioning society.

karmelapple 4y ago

Thanks for sharing this, I hadn't heard of this. Here's Teddy Roosevelt in his own words [1] describing it: > To break up the system of blackmail and corruption was less easy. ... the criminal who is blackmailed has a direct interest in paying the blackmailer, and it is not easy to get information about it. Nevertheless, we put a complete stop to most of the blackmail by the simple process of rigorously enforcing the laws, not only against crime, but against vice. ... > The multiplication of laws by the legislature and their partial enforcement by the executive authorities go hand in hand, and offer one of the many serious problems with which we are confronted in striving to better civic conditions. New York State felt that liquor should not be sold on Sunday. The larger part of New York city wished to drink liquor on Sunday. > ... > The law was not in the least a dead-letter; it was enforced, but it was corruptly and partially enforced. > ... > The paper again and again called upon the police commissioners to either uniformly enforce the law or uniformly disregard it. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1897/09/municipal-administration-the-new-york-police-force/519849/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1897/09/municip...