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Fines are stupid to begin with. If they are too low nobody will care and the sheer number of people breaking the law makes enforcement pointless. If they are to

Fines are stupid to begin with. If they are too low nobody will care and the sheer number of people breaking the law makes enforcement pointless. If they are too high, they can send the average person into financial ruin, and the wealthy can continue paying their way around trouble. Even a ticket of a couple hundred dollars insane to the average American. In either case, without any proper oversight, this money just ends up going towards the funding of police departments, who are then incentivized to give out more tickets. Ultimately they act as tax collectors rather than protection for those living in their jurisdiction. Our people used to run bad cops out of town, now we can't even be bothered to fire them.

derac 4y ago
Where I am from, if you get enough strikes on your record you can lose your license.
clairity 4y ago
> "...and the wealthy can continue paying their way around trouble." this is why tickets should be income-contingent, if not wealth-contingent (much trickier and more invasive, so unlikely).
- photochemsyn 4y ago
  In Finland, it's apparently the case, and Switzerland as well. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-t... However, improving traffic infrastructure (separating bicycles and pedestrians from cars and trucks with physical barriers, reducing the flow of traffic through city centers, etc.) is a much more effective way of reducing traffic-related injuries and fatalies, which is what the fines are supposed to encourage.
  - clairity 4y ago
    well, fines are (indirectly) meant to prevent collisions and conflict, not just injuries and fatalities, premised on the notion that traffic laws represent the best way to do so (not always true). that's mostly unrelated to multi-modal infrastructure, which i'm an ardent proponent of. if i had a magic wand, i'd turn all the street parking in LA into protected bike/scooter lanes, narrow all non-bus lanes to 8 feet, plant street trees everywhere possible, and increase public transportation tenfold. but to reduce injuries/fatalities measurably, we mostly need to target distracted driving, which is beyond obeying traffic laws, and gets into the design of cities, cars, and devices.
robonerd 4y ago
Even small fines come with a large serving of shame, at least for a lot of people. Receiving an inconsequentially small fine can be the kick some people need to sort themselves out, if they perceive the social denunciation implicit in the fine. Of course, some people are shameless.

derac 4y ago

Where I am from, if you get enough strikes on your record you can lose your license.

clairity 4y ago

> "...and the wealthy can continue paying their way around trouble." this is why tickets should be income-contingent, if not wealth-contingent (much trickier and more invasive, so unlikely).

photochemsyn 4y ago
In Finland, it's apparently the case, and Switzerland as well. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-t... However, improving traffic infrastructure (separating bicycles and pedestrians from cars and trucks with physical barriers, reducing the flow of traffic through city centers, etc.) is a much more effective way of reducing traffic-related injuries and fatalies, which is what the fines are supposed to encourage.
- clairity 4y ago
  well, fines are (indirectly) meant to prevent collisions and conflict, not just injuries and fatalities, premised on the notion that traffic laws represent the best way to do so (not always true). that's mostly unrelated to multi-modal infrastructure, which i'm an ardent proponent of. if i had a magic wand, i'd turn all the street parking in LA into protected bike/scooter lanes, narrow all non-bus lanes to 8 feet, plant street trees everywhere possible, and increase public transportation tenfold. but to reduce injuries/fatalities measurably, we mostly need to target distracted driving, which is beyond obeying traffic laws, and gets into the design of cities, cars, and devices.

robonerd 4y ago

Even small fines come with a large serving of shame, at least for a lot of people. Receiving an inconsequentially small fine can be the kick some people need to sort themselves out, if they perceive the social denunciation implicit in the fine. Of course, some people are shameless.