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>If i were to restrict myself to searching only the past 5 years of produced Perl code on CPAN i would be hard-pressed to find truly terrible samples. Well, it

by danssig 15y ago

>If i were to restrict myself to searching only the past 5 years of produced Perl code on CPAN i would be hard-pressed to find truly terrible samples. Well, it depends on what you mean by "truly terrible samples". If you mean "things the thread-OP couldn't understand" then I would be surprised if your statement is correct. Was the example he provided from CPAN? >I said language, not virtual machine. People are doing "crazy" things in every language. Including porting them to the JVM so they can use the whole body of Java libraries (which is more than what's on CPAN btw). >When does Ruby plan to have Roles? I'm not a ruby guy but ruby has mixins which fill the same niche (even if they probably behave a little differently to accomplish it). >Trouble setting up perl, good one, pal. It depends. If I'm on a modern Linux, sure, if it's not already there I can apt-get it. That's not always the case though. >That was written as a joke I'm pretty sure the one I saw from Chromatic. It had various Moose stuff in it as well. Surely you don't have to pull in the whole OO framework to get unicode to work? >Right now, yes. Which is why i wrote the blog post mentioned above. How kind of you to notice. So finally you accept a criticism. But only the one you made yourself already. And they say Rails is a ghetto...

Mithaldu 15y ago
> Was the example he provided from CPAN? Man, please, you could at least read the whole thing. I provided the sample, randomly pulled from CPAN and that dude harped on one small extract. > mixins Hm, gonna have to admit i have no clue about those. Will read up at some point. > It depends. If I'm on a modern Linux, sure, if it's not already there I can apt-get it. That's not always the case though. Perl is on every linux, no exception. It may not be the newest one, but even then you can use perlbrew to install whatever version you want for your own user account. But seriously, perl is on every linux. And even on windows it's as stupidly simple as downloading an installer and clicking 5 times. > moose ... boilerplate You wouldn't include Moose in a boilerplate thing. > criticism I work daily with Perl, i've considered MANY criticisms, i have a whole book of criticisms of my own. The problem you're running into is that i've already spent a hell of a lot more time thinking about those criticisms than you have.
- danssig 15y ago
  >I provided the sample, randomly pulled from CPAN and that dude harped on one small extract. I missed that part. But I find it highly amusing that you randomly pulled a sample file from CPAN an already failed your own test. >Hm, gonna have to admit i have no clue about those. Will read up at some point. Fair enough, but I feel compelled to point out that you've been harping on me all over this thread for not reading things yet you declare perl's OO (bolted on via a library, no less) superior to ruby's without even knowing how ruby's works. >Perl is on every linux Linux yes. Not every Unix, not every Windows. >You wouldn't include Moose in a boilerplate thing. It was. It was a boilerplate list of things one should use to make perl a modern language. I think they wanted to make one module that did all these uses for you so you could just use that, but the point remains. It takes a lot of modification to stock perl to bring it up to the level of the competition. >The problem you're running into is that i've already spent a hell of a lot more time thinking about those criticisms than you have. I worked daily with perl for half a decade. I can believe that you have spent more time thinking about the criticism because you apparently like perl. I had no emotional attachment to it so when I saw languages that didn't have those problems I left it and never looked back.
  - Mithaldu 15y ago
    > I missed that part. But I find it highly amusing that you randomly pulled a sample file from CPAN an already failed your own test. And on that note i'll concede defeat to your lack of reading comprehension.
  - jleader 15y ago
    >>Perl is on every linux >Linux yes. Not every Unix, not every Windows. Wait, you'll only consider languages that come pre-installed on all Unices and Windows? That's a pretty short list! Or are you complaining that Perl isn't available for some Unices or some versions of Windows? I'm curious to know what version of Unix or Windows has Python and/or Ruby interpreters available, but doesn't have Perl.
    - danssig 15y ago
chromatic 15y ago
I'm not a ruby guy but ruby has mixins which fill the same niche (even if they probably behave a little differently to accomplish it). Mixins don't even compare to roles; mixins in Ruby (at least Ruby 1.8 this was true) manipulate inheritance, and so they suffer from ordering problems. The compiler can't warn you about collisions and conflicts. Roles solve that problem.
- danssig 15y ago
  >Mixins don't even compare to roles; Of course they do. They may not be as good as perl's Roles but you can't say "Ruby doesn't even have a way to do this" as the GP did (paraphrased). They do, perhaps it's not as nice but it's there.
  - chromatic 15y ago
    One of the explicit design goals for roles was to solve the flaws of mixins. We succeeded. While it may be technically correct to object to a hyperliteral interpretation of an English idiom, I stand by the assertion that the presence of roles in Perl 5's Moose and Perl 6's object system makes for a better object system than Ruby with mixins.

by danssig 15y ago

Mithaldu 15y ago

> Was the example he provided from CPAN? Man, please, you could at least read the whole thing. I provided the sample, randomly pulled from CPAN and that dude harped on one small extract. > mixins Hm, gonna have to admit i have no clue about those. Will read up at some point. > It depends. If I'm on a modern Linux, sure, if it's not already there I can apt-get it. That's not always the case though. Perl is on every linux, no exception. It may not be the newest one, but even then you can use perlbrew to install whatever version you want for your own user account. But seriously, perl is on every linux. And even on windows it's as stupidly simple as downloading an installer and clicking 5 times. > moose ... boilerplate You wouldn't include Moose in a boilerplate thing. > criticism I work daily with Perl, i've considered MANY criticisms, i have a whole book of criticisms of my own. The problem you're running into is that i've already spent a hell of a lot more time thinking about those criticisms than you have.

danssig 15y ago
>I provided the sample, randomly pulled from CPAN and that dude harped on one small extract. I missed that part. But I find it highly amusing that you randomly pulled a sample file from CPAN an already failed your own test. >Hm, gonna have to admit i have no clue about those. Will read up at some point. Fair enough, but I feel compelled to point out that you've been harping on me all over this thread for not reading things yet you declare perl's OO (bolted on via a library, no less) superior to ruby's without even knowing how ruby's works. >Perl is on every linux Linux yes. Not every Unix, not every Windows. >You wouldn't include Moose in a boilerplate thing. It was. It was a boilerplate list of things one should use to make perl a modern language. I think they wanted to make one module that did all these uses for you so you could just use that, but the point remains. It takes a lot of modification to stock perl to bring it up to the level of the competition. >The problem you're running into is that i've already spent a hell of a lot more time thinking about those criticisms than you have. I worked daily with perl for half a decade. I can believe that you have spent more time thinking about the criticism because you apparently like perl. I had no emotional attachment to it so when I saw languages that didn't have those problems I left it and never looked back.
- Mithaldu 15y ago
  > I missed that part. But I find it highly amusing that you randomly pulled a sample file from CPAN an already failed your own test. And on that note i'll concede defeat to your lack of reading comprehension.
- jleader 15y ago
  >>Perl is on every linux >Linux yes. Not every Unix, not every Windows. Wait, you'll only consider languages that come pre-installed on all Unices and Windows? That's a pretty short list! Or are you complaining that Perl isn't available for some Unices or some versions of Windows? I'm curious to know what version of Unix or Windows has Python and/or Ruby interpreters available, but doesn't have Perl.
  - danssig 15y ago

chromatic 15y ago

I'm not a ruby guy but ruby has mixins which fill the same niche (even if they probably behave a little differently to accomplish it). Mixins don't even compare to roles; mixins in Ruby (at least Ruby 1.8 this was true) manipulate inheritance, and so they suffer from ordering problems. The compiler can't warn you about collisions and conflicts. Roles solve that problem.

danssig 15y ago
>Mixins don't even compare to roles; Of course they do. They may not be as good as perl's Roles but you can't say "Ruby doesn't even have a way to do this" as the GP did (paraphrased). They do, perhaps it's not as nice but it's there.
- chromatic 15y ago
  One of the explicit design goals for roles was to solve the flaws of mixins. We succeeded. While it may be technically correct to object to a hyperliteral interpretation of an English idiom, I stand by the assertion that the presence of roles in Perl 5's Moose and Perl 6's object system makes for a better object system than Ruby with mixins.