5 ms·

There are 200+ million Dalits in India. These are the people which were previously called “untouchables”. I work in medicine, many Indians work with me and mos

There are 200+ million Dalits in India. These are the people which were previously called “untouchables”. I work in medicine, many Indians work with me and most are Brahmins with a few Christian Malayali from Kerala. I think the Malayali have shown it is possible to escape the caste system and to have success. However I am worried Dalits have been at the bottom and treated as such for thousands of years that it has effected more than just their psychology. In a high population density area with food insecurity there will be high baseline stress, malnutrition, and starvation. Those will cause epigenetic modifications to DNA which are (surprisingly) heritable. Over thousands I imagine these effects will produce behaviors which are going to be hard to overcome.

dundarious 4y ago
What are or should be the consequences of these worries of yours?
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  The worry is that it will take many generations of significant investment back into the Dalit communities to bring them into parity with the rest of the Indian population. That even after the investment the longterm epigenetic effects from thousands of years of high intergenerational stress will show a significant increase in diseases of all types with higher all cause mortality/lower life expectancy.
  - dundarious 4y ago
    Lifestyle factors drastically dominate when it comes to mortality/life expectancy. Also, the whole idea is highly speculative and would/should have no implications for workplace/hiring practices regardless.
    - Pigalowda 4y ago
      Yes it is true that with improvement in maternal/fetal survivability modifiable lifestyle factors drastically dominate life expectancy. However that's a throw away line to disregard significant differences. It's basically zooming out far enough to say it doesn't matter. And yes, its a speculative idea that I proposed, I certainly didn't suggest it was dogma. However this kind of observation is what would lead to a study. Lastly, while this discussion is tangential to Google hiring practices, it is a related topic. I'm sorry if you feel like I robbed you of your time.
      - dundarious 4y ago
        It’s not “a throw away line to disregard significant differences” when I say that almost all the genetic factors you’re concerned about are subordinate to lifestyle factors — they are. Genetic factors can be governed (genes switched on/off) via lifestyle factors such as diet, activity, etc. Never mind that whole populations have endured famines, passing on harmful traits epigenetically, and yet, those populations have recovered well. I don’t think you’re wasting my or anyone else’s time, but I think your post was missing crucial info, especially given the context. If there was a post about career achievement or discrimination of Finnish people, I wouldn’t post about their unfavorable epigenetic profile since the famines of WW2, lest it be construed as partial justification.
istjohn 4y ago
That sounds like a barely plausible, extremely convenient justification for bigotry that could be employed by any number of racial or ethnic groups.
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  Not barely plausible at all. For my epigenetic comment - Here is a relevant paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579375/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579375/ And secondly, low SES populations have much higher rates of psychiatric disorders and pretty much all diseases. If one were to combine thousands of years of epigenetic effects and persistent unescapable low SES status, then it does not take a leap of faith to hypothesize there will be long term effects. Much less "barely plausible", a comment that only arises because this is not your domain, but it is mine.
djohnston 4y ago
It's interesting to read how bigots from around the world will independently converge on eugenics.
- istjohn 4y ago
  Yes, or more precisely, scientific racism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dundarious 4y ago

What are or should be the consequences of these worries of yours?

Pigalowda 4y ago
The worry is that it will take many generations of significant investment back into the Dalit communities to bring them into parity with the rest of the Indian population. That even after the investment the longterm epigenetic effects from thousands of years of high intergenerational stress will show a significant increase in diseases of all types with higher all cause mortality/lower life expectancy.
- dundarious 4y ago
  Lifestyle factors drastically dominate when it comes to mortality/life expectancy. Also, the whole idea is highly speculative and would/should have no implications for workplace/hiring practices regardless.
  - Pigalowda 4y ago
    Yes it is true that with improvement in maternal/fetal survivability modifiable lifestyle factors drastically dominate life expectancy. However that's a throw away line to disregard significant differences. It's basically zooming out far enough to say it doesn't matter. And yes, its a speculative idea that I proposed, I certainly didn't suggest it was dogma. However this kind of observation is what would lead to a study. Lastly, while this discussion is tangential to Google hiring practices, it is a related topic. I'm sorry if you feel like I robbed you of your time.
    - dundarious 4y ago
      It’s not “a throw away line to disregard significant differences” when I say that almost all the genetic factors you’re concerned about are subordinate to lifestyle factors — they are. Genetic factors can be governed (genes switched on/off) via lifestyle factors such as diet, activity, etc. Never mind that whole populations have endured famines, passing on harmful traits epigenetically, and yet, those populations have recovered well. I don’t think you’re wasting my or anyone else’s time, but I think your post was missing crucial info, especially given the context. If there was a post about career achievement or discrimination of Finnish people, I wouldn’t post about their unfavorable epigenetic profile since the famines of WW2, lest it be construed as partial justification.

istjohn 4y ago

That sounds like a barely plausible, extremely convenient justification for bigotry that could be employed by any number of racial or ethnic groups.

Pigalowda 4y ago
Not barely plausible at all. For my epigenetic comment - Here is a relevant paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579375/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579375/ And secondly, low SES populations have much higher rates of psychiatric disorders and pretty much all diseases. If one were to combine thousands of years of epigenetic effects and persistent unescapable low SES status, then it does not take a leap of faith to hypothesize there will be long term effects. Much less "barely plausible", a comment that only arises because this is not your domain, but it is mine.

djohnston 4y ago

It's interesting to read how bigots from around the world will independently converge on eugenics.

istjohn 4y ago
Yes, or more precisely, scientific racism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]