4 ms·

Is QA lower tier work in most places? Isn't that bass-ackwards?

by jonnycomputer 4y ago

delecti 4y ago
It is definitely viewed as lower tier, which is unfortunate because it's incredibly valuable.
- bena 4y ago
  Something can be both. Incredibly low-skilled and easy yet valuable.
  - delecti 4y ago
    I said QA is viewed as lower tier, not less skilled. QA, especially SDET style QA, is plenty difficult, but gets very little respect.
    - bena 4y ago
      Yes, there are levels of QA. But QA, at its most difficult is also software development, but for the most part, is not. I would say, that on average, QA is a lower skilled profession than software development. If I were to make an analogy, QA is the nurse to the developer's doctor. And, yes, it is a lower tier. You hire developers before QA and fire QA before developers. But, like you said, it deserves respect. Just like all professions. And I'd say that a competent QA staff is the sign of a successful organization. Because while you can have your developers test, it's better to move those responsibilities off their plate so they can focus on their core work. Just like you could have your employees take out the trash and sweep up, but once you're beyond the "5 people in a garage" setup, you're going to hire a cleaning service. To the point of the higher up comments. It is an issue. Even if QA were more difficult, challenging, etc than development, we can't get around the fact that it is perceived as supplemental to development. It is a place where organizations put people who want to be developers but the organization doesn't want to be developers. Or a dumping ground for 1x developers. And it seems, a way to tweak diversity numbers without actually doing anything.
- havblue 4y ago
  While it pays less I don't think I'd ever state that it's "lower tier". If QA is an integral part of your process, that the customer pays for, then you don't disparage people doing the necessary work.
chrismorgan 4y ago
As commonly implemented, it’s certainly a less-skilled job with a lot of banal repetition, tedious procedure, and not much scope for or need of original thought. As one familiar with the Indian education system (which is heavily rote-based and does not generally encourage understanding-based learning, especially before the tertiary level) and the mentality it produces in comparison with the western mind, I would say (and please don’t misunderstand me; I’m making a dispassionate assessment of why it might be so, not whether it should or should not be so) that this is actually a pretty good match, and it would not surprise me—nay, I would expect—to find Indians and especially Indian women fitting in better into that style of QA department than into other fields such as development; and when you have a large fraction of people who think in such-and-such a way, it will tend to be self-reinforcing and -perpetuating. (This is also a significant factor in why these sorts of effects in how you think as a whole have a habit of lingering for a generation or two after transplantation into another country.)
mr_toad 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value

Is QA lower tier work in most places? Isn't that bass-ackwards?

delecti 4y ago

It is definitely viewed as lower tier, which is unfortunate because it's incredibly valuable.

bena 4y ago
Something can be both. Incredibly low-skilled and easy yet valuable.
- delecti 4y ago
  I said QA is viewed as lower tier, not less skilled. QA, especially SDET style QA, is plenty difficult, but gets very little respect.
  - bena 4y ago
    Yes, there are levels of QA. But QA, at its most difficult is also software development, but for the most part, is not. I would say, that on average, QA is a lower skilled profession than software development. If I were to make an analogy, QA is the nurse to the developer's doctor. And, yes, it is a lower tier. You hire developers before QA and fire QA before developers. But, like you said, it deserves respect. Just like all professions. And I'd say that a competent QA staff is the sign of a successful organization. Because while you can have your developers test, it's better to move those responsibilities off their plate so they can focus on their core work. Just like you could have your employees take out the trash and sweep up, but once you're beyond the "5 people in a garage" setup, you're going to hire a cleaning service. To the point of the higher up comments. It is an issue. Even if QA were more difficult, challenging, etc than development, we can't get around the fact that it is perceived as supplemental to development. It is a place where organizations put people who want to be developers but the organization doesn't want to be developers. Or a dumping ground for 1x developers. And it seems, a way to tweak diversity numbers without actually doing anything.
havblue 4y ago
While it pays less I don't think I'd ever state that it's "lower tier". If QA is an integral part of your process, that the customer pays for, then you don't disparage people doing the necessary work.

chrismorgan 4y ago

As commonly implemented, it’s certainly a less-skilled job with a lot of banal repetition, tedious procedure, and not much scope for or need of original thought. As one familiar with the Indian education system (which is heavily rote-based and does not generally encourage understanding-based learning, especially before the tertiary level) and the mentality it produces in comparison with the western mind, I would say (and please don’t misunderstand me; I’m making a dispassionate assessment of why it might be so, not whether it should or should not be so) that this is actually a pretty good match, and it would not surprise me—nay, I would expect—to find Indians and especially Indian women fitting in better into that style of QA department than into other fields such as development; and when you have a large fraction of people who think in such-and-such a way, it will tend to be self-reinforcing and -perpetuating. (This is also a significant factor in why these sorts of effects in how you think as a whole have a habit of lingering for a generation or two after transplantation into another country.)

mr_toad 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value