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I don't agree with your take - I've always loved RTS games (played age of empires 2, StarCraft, Warcraft 3, deviated into lol/dota and back to StarCraft 2 and n

I don't agree with your take - I've always loved RTS games (played age of empires 2, StarCraft, Warcraft 3, deviated into lol/dota and back to StarCraft 2 and now age of empires 4) - basic strategies in terms of build orders are table stakes for these games and have been since as long as I can remember. You need to be able to react to changing situations in these games. Nobody executes build orders perfectly, and there's RNG in map spawns and layouts that can give you a subtle edge over your opponent. The game is won and lost on being able to react to your opponents moves and follow through on counters to it, the same way chess plays.

the_only_law 4y ago
> The game is won and lost on being able to react to your opponents moves and follow through on counters to it, the same way chess plays. Ok fair enough, though to me personally, I’m not very excited by or immersed in chess games either. I’ve trended more towards grand strategy in recent years, which on the surface seem to be closer to what I’m looking for, but in practice often end up being me just trying to min/max modifiers for RNG rolls.
- wincy 4y ago
  Yeah I mean I totally get it. I’ve been playing a lot of Stellaris lately and want an emergent fun story of being a space empire. Once it feels like I’m playing a simulation I get bored and look for something new. I’ve started playing tabletop role playing games and being interested in those lately because of this. Really I want to tell interesting stories.
- maccard 4y ago
  Totally fair - it's a pity that how RTS games are presented Vs how they play is very different. I was going to say grand strategy games are probably more what you're looking for. I'm a fan of stellaris and the total war games, and they do lend themselves to min maxing but fatless so than many other games!
ericdykstra 4y ago
RTS has always been my preferred competitive genre. Yes, basic build orders are pretty well mapped out. In Starcraft 2, for example, the first 1:30 or so for beginners, the first 3-4 minutes for intermediate players, and the first 8-9 minutes for pros have "standard" build orders. But once you get past this, there's so many things to worry about - balancing tech versus units versus upgrades versus economy, micro, scouting, unit composition, harassing and defending harass... And then the meta layer, which is allocating your limited time and APM to those decisions and actions! Really challenging and rewarding to improve at, and the only "e-sport" I find interesting to watch.

the_only_law 4y ago

> The game is won and lost on being able to react to your opponents moves and follow through on counters to it, the same way chess plays. Ok fair enough, though to me personally, I’m not very excited by or immersed in chess games either. I’ve trended more towards grand strategy in recent years, which on the surface seem to be closer to what I’m looking for, but in practice often end up being me just trying to min/max modifiers for RNG rolls.

wincy 4y ago
Yeah I mean I totally get it. I’ve been playing a lot of Stellaris lately and want an emergent fun story of being a space empire. Once it feels like I’m playing a simulation I get bored and look for something new. I’ve started playing tabletop role playing games and being interested in those lately because of this. Really I want to tell interesting stories.
maccard 4y ago
Totally fair - it's a pity that how RTS games are presented Vs how they play is very different. I was going to say grand strategy games are probably more what you're looking for. I'm a fan of stellaris and the total war games, and they do lend themselves to min maxing but fatless so than many other games!

ericdykstra 4y ago

RTS has always been my preferred competitive genre. Yes, basic build orders are pretty well mapped out. In Starcraft 2, for example, the first 1:30 or so for beginners, the first 3-4 minutes for intermediate players, and the first 8-9 minutes for pros have "standard" build orders. But once you get past this, there's so many things to worry about - balancing tech versus units versus upgrades versus economy, micro, scouting, unit composition, harassing and defending harass... And then the meta layer, which is allocating your limited time and APM to those decisions and actions! Really challenging and rewarding to improve at, and the only "e-sport" I find interesting to watch.