3 ms·

What do you mean by that?

by sevnin 4y ago

rtz121 4y ago
In Smalltalk there is no such thing as source files. Your program is an image which can be freely modified and dumped. Look at Pharo[1] which is a modern Smalltalk environment. You start it up and create classes in the IDE, but never do you create "source files". [1] https://pharo.org/ https://pharo.org/
- igouy 4y ago
  "6.18 Saving code in a file" Pharo 9 by Example, page 75 https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&ots=2J8SRES11C&dq=pharo%20saving%20code%20in%20a%20file&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q=pharo%20saving%20code%20in%20a%20file https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&ots=... > In Smalltalk there is no such thing as source files... $ cat fact.st Stdio stdout nextPutAll: 100 factorial printString; nextPut: Character lf.! SmalltalkImage current snapshot: false andQuit: true! $ bin/pharo --headless Pharo10-SNAPSHOT-64bit-502addc.image fact.st 93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000
  - rtz121 4y ago
    I was obviously simplifying it for my explanation as I didn't want to write a story. Yes you can file-out and file-in but thats not the primary mode of operation when working with the IDE.
    - igouy 4y ago
      Look where that wrong explanation leads — "#1 it's a burden of knowledge to shift from the Unix filesystem to the Smalltalk runtime. There... are no files." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31474424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31474424 "Pharo by Example" doesn't need a wrong explanation — "It may seem like the image file should be the key mechanism for storing and managing software projects, but in practice that is not the case at all. There are much better tools for managing code and sharing software that is developed in a team. Images are useful, but you should be very cavalier about creating and throwing away images." "2.5 Saving, quitting and restarting a Pharo session" Pharo 9 by Example, page 14 https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&dq=pharo%20saving%20code%20in%20a%20file&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&dq=p...
- sevnin 4y ago
  Damn, that sounds really cool. The IDE has some amazing features too. The IDE states that you can modify the program while it's running is that actually working well? Cause it seems like a very volatile feature that can go very poorly.
  - igouy 4y ago
    Just because you can doesn't mean you must — it depends on your process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping#Software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping#Software
  - rtz121 4y ago
    > The IDE states that you can modify the program while it's running is that actually working well? Cause it seems like a very volatile feature that can go very poorly. It's actually a paradigm that works well in many programming languages besides Smalltalk such as Common Lisp, but for some reason seems to be forgotten with "modern" and "trendy" programming languages. Except for.... JavaScript!

What do you mean by that?

by sevnin 4y ago

What do you mean by that?

In Smalltalk there is no such thing as source files. Your program is an image which can be freely modified and dumped. Look at Pharo[1] which is a modern Smalltalk environment. You start it up and create classes in the IDE, but never do you create "source files". [1] https://pharo.org/ https://pharo.org/

igouy 4y ago
"6.18 Saving code in a file" Pharo 9 by Example, page 75 https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&ots=2J8SRES11C&dq=pharo%20saving%20code%20in%20a%20file&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q=pharo%20saving%20code%20in%20a%20file https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&ots=... > In Smalltalk there is no such thing as source files... $ cat fact.st Stdio stdout nextPutAll: 100 factorial printString; nextPut: Character lf.! SmalltalkImage current snapshot: false andQuit: true! $ bin/pharo --headless Pharo10-SNAPSHOT-64bit-502addc.image fact.st 93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000
- rtz121 4y ago
  I was obviously simplifying it for my explanation as I didn't want to write a story. Yes you can file-out and file-in but thats not the primary mode of operation when working with the IDE.
  - igouy 4y ago
    Look where that wrong explanation leads — "#1 it's a burden of knowledge to shift from the Unix filesystem to the Smalltalk runtime. There... are no files." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31474424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31474424 "Pharo by Example" doesn't need a wrong explanation — "It may seem like the image file should be the key mechanism for storing and managing software projects, but in practice that is not the case at all. There are much better tools for managing code and sharing software that is developed in a team. Images are useful, but you should be very cavalier about creating and throwing away images." "2.5 Saving, quitting and restarting a Pharo session" Pharo 9 by Example, page 14 https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&dq=pharo%20saving%20code%20in%20a%20file&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=hfpwEAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA75&dq=p...
sevnin 4y ago
Damn, that sounds really cool. The IDE has some amazing features too. The IDE states that you can modify the program while it's running is that actually working well? Cause it seems like a very volatile feature that can go very poorly.
- igouy 4y ago
  Just because you can doesn't mean you must — it depends on your process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping#Software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping#Software
- rtz121 4y ago
  > The IDE states that you can modify the program while it's running is that actually working well? Cause it seems like a very volatile feature that can go very poorly. It's actually a paradigm that works well in many programming languages besides Smalltalk such as Common Lisp, but for some reason seems to be forgotten with "modern" and "trendy" programming languages. Except for.... JavaScript!