5 ms·

The situation for PHP is just as bad, try googling for php mysql tutorial... The first five results are all using oldskool mysql_connect like back in the day. T

by st0p 15y ago

The situation for PHP is just as bad, try googling for php mysql tutorial... The first five results are all using oldskool mysql_connect like back in the day. This is deprecated in php 5.4 and much better alternatives exist nowadays. Definitly a bad situation for any language IMHO.

alttag 15y ago
This suggests a different alternative exists: re-branding Perl (or PHP) as Perl6 (or PHP5), and consistently using those terms within the community to distinguish the two. Make a point that it is a different language, enforce the usage (via style guide) in all public facing commentary. It will take time, but the community will start to change, and thus actually change what users are searching for. Think of HTML/CSS. One gets a more relevant set of results by searching HTML5, because there was a great deal of effort put into explaining how the language had changed. When looking for bleeding-edge features, a search for CSS3 is more helpful than a search on CSS (which like the perl situation, sometimes returns legacy garbage). The same applies when trying to troubleshoot a problem on OS X: adding 'lion' to the query often improves relevance of results. I short, make a conscious effort to create a new label and inject it into the public consciousness.
- danssig 15y ago
  Or you could, you know, do what other languages do and just move on to perl 6. It was meant to replace perl 5 after all. To be honest, as a outsider this whole movement of keeping perl 5 around forever after perl 6 is getting closer and closer to usable is one of the most bizarre, cultish things I've ever seen in the tech community (and that's saying a lot).
  - Mithaldu 15y ago
    Oh man, i should've seen this post before i answered to your other one. You're either a magnificent troll or are just commenting on things you have barely a passing knowledge of. Do you also wait for Perl 6 because it will make all Perl code 5 times faster like the recruiter at that Berlin company i visited?
    - danssig 15y ago
      I coded in perl for an agonizing 5 years. Sure, it made sense to start working on perl 5 again once it was clear that perl 6 was stalled but is that still the case? I was under the impression that there are just a few things missing. If that's so then I would say people should be getting prepared for migration. You can resist it, as has happened in various communities (i.e. python) but to actually compete with perl 6 and try and make the two different languages is down-right cult behavior. Perl isn't a person, it doesn't have feelings. If you tell it "screw you perl 5, perl 6 is better" it's not going to cry or leave angry messages on your phone. It's just a tool.
      - Mithaldu 15y ago
        First and foremost: There is no way to "move on" from Perl 5 to Perl 6. Perl 6 is a completely different language at this point and more akin to what Ruby tried to be, back when it was made, in respect to Perl 5. And well, with the pace Perl 6 is moving on it'll be another decade for it to become production-usable. There may be only 5% of the feature-set missing (maybe more, maybe less, i don't keep track), but those 5% are the hardest part, and then comes the task of making all that run fast and to bundle it up, etc. etc. I wouldn't hold my breath. Also see chromatic's writings on that matter: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=1&tag=perl%206&limit=20 http://www.modernperlbooks.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog... http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/08/why-my-side-project-doesnt-use-perl-6.html http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/08/why-my-side-projec...
        danssig 15y ago
        Well, fair enough if that's the case but I wish the perl community would be consistent. Anytime someone jokes about perl 6 not being usable, someone (often chromatic!) comes out and says "it's usable now, you're talking nonsense". And if it's truly a different language then you should change the name. Racket did it. And then you would have room to eventually have a version 6 of perl (what you call perl5 now).
        15y ago
  - alttag 15y ago
    I don't see how your post is a response to mine. My point was that OP complains they can't change what users are searching for. I assert they can, but they have to change the way they market and talk about their language. They need to present it as markedly different and give users a way to differentiate it in search from previous versions. (Aside: I don't use Perl. I don't want to use Perl. The things I need to get done I can accomplish in other languages, and that are clear when I look at the code six months later.)

by st0p 15y ago

alttag 15y ago

This suggests a different alternative exists: re-branding Perl (or PHP) as Perl6 (or PHP5), and consistently using those terms within the community to distinguish the two. Make a point that it is a different language, enforce the usage (via style guide) in all public facing commentary. It will take time, but the community will start to change, and thus actually change what users are searching for. Think of HTML/CSS. One gets a more relevant set of results by searching HTML5, because there was a great deal of effort put into explaining how the language had changed. When looking for bleeding-edge features, a search for CSS3 is more helpful than a search on CSS (which like the perl situation, sometimes returns legacy garbage). The same applies when trying to troubleshoot a problem on OS X: adding 'lion' to the query often improves relevance of results. I short, make a conscious effort to create a new label and inject it into the public consciousness.

danssig 15y ago
Or you could, you know, do what other languages do and just move on to perl 6. It was meant to replace perl 5 after all. To be honest, as a outsider this whole movement of keeping perl 5 around forever after perl 6 is getting closer and closer to usable is one of the most bizarre, cultish things I've ever seen in the tech community (and that's saying a lot).
- Mithaldu 15y ago
  Oh man, i should've seen this post before i answered to your other one. You're either a magnificent troll or are just commenting on things you have barely a passing knowledge of. Do you also wait for Perl 6 because it will make all Perl code 5 times faster like the recruiter at that Berlin company i visited?
  - danssig 15y ago
    I coded in perl for an agonizing 5 years. Sure, it made sense to start working on perl 5 again once it was clear that perl 6 was stalled but is that still the case? I was under the impression that there are just a few things missing. If that's so then I would say people should be getting prepared for migration. You can resist it, as has happened in various communities (i.e. python) but to actually compete with perl 6 and try and make the two different languages is down-right cult behavior. Perl isn't a person, it doesn't have feelings. If you tell it "screw you perl 5, perl 6 is better" it's not going to cry or leave angry messages on your phone. It's just a tool.
    - Mithaldu 15y ago
      First and foremost: There is no way to "move on" from Perl 5 to Perl 6. Perl 6 is a completely different language at this point and more akin to what Ruby tried to be, back when it was made, in respect to Perl 5. And well, with the pace Perl 6 is moving on it'll be another decade for it to become production-usable. There may be only 5% of the feature-set missing (maybe more, maybe less, i don't keep track), but those 5% are the hardest part, and then comes the task of making all that run fast and to bundle it up, etc. etc. I wouldn't hold my breath. Also see chromatic's writings on that matter: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=1&tag=perl%206&limit=20 http://www.modernperlbooks.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog... http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/08/why-my-side-project-doesnt-use-perl-6.html http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/08/why-my-side-projec...
      - danssig 15y ago
        Well, fair enough if that's the case but I wish the perl community would be consistent. Anytime someone jokes about perl 6 not being usable, someone (often chromatic!) comes out and says "it's usable now, you're talking nonsense". And if it's truly a different language then you should change the name. Racket did it. And then you would have room to eventually have a version 6 of perl (what you call perl5 now).
        15y ago
- alttag 15y ago
  I don't see how your post is a response to mine. My point was that OP complains they can't change what users are searching for. I assert they can, but they have to change the way they market and talk about their language. They need to present it as markedly different and give users a way to differentiate it in search from previous versions. (Aside: I don't use Perl. I don't want to use Perl. The things I need to get done I can accomplish in other languages, and that are clear when I look at the code six months later.)