5 ms·

The Town That Went Feral

22 points by tr_user 4y ago

bediger4000 4y ago
Worth a read: fairly comical.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  Until the bear gets you. We have some in our back property.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
Some people seem to think that government is useless and should be abolished, always. But where ever the government powers are reduce we start to see societal decline. Crime goes up, the common infrastructure begins to fail, and generally, the place becomes a S hole to live in. Think about the worst places to live in and you'll see a government that's failing in someway. I'm not a rule lover but I know if there are no rules then it's an ugly place to be. This leads to the idea that taxes are an important part of society since that's how we finance a peaceful and productive society. We should not let all our money go to taxes but there's a point where we need to pay taxes to have a society we want to live in. People get the dumb idea that we can ask for countless benefits from government without having to pay for them. We need to balance our wants with what's possible. The idea of paying no taxes or paying taxes that are so low that the government can't function is a recipe for disaster. Libertarianism sounds like a nice solution to a free society in theory but in practice it's a non starter. The reality is that it falls in the same realm as fairytales and elves. It's nice to read about but it's not very practical as the primary societal philosophy of living.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  You can sneer all you want but the kind of people who want low taxes and low services don't share your values and likewise don't care what you think anymore than a gay stripper cares what the Pope thinks. They're happy to have potholes and bears. To them it's a cheap price to pay for not having government that's not capable of micromanaging even if it wanted to.
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    Thank god we live in a democracy and there are almost none of them! But there are enough to sneer at I guess! (Which I don’t do - I just chuckle … well other than Grover Norquist who deserves all the derision he gets)
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Funny because I shit you not the only gay stripper I know is a devout catholic. Celibate I think. A conflicted life to be sure but one that definitely does exist!
  - WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
    The irony and the hypocrisy of the situation is that I have no gay strippers trying to convert me into a gay stripper. But there are plenty of libertarians that are trying to take over government and force everyone into their idea of a free society. Fine you want to live under a libertarian rule? More power to you. Just don't force the rest of us to be part of it. There's plenty of places where libertarians can create their dream world. The world is a big place.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      >The irony and the hypocrisy of the situation is that I have no gay strippers trying to convert me into a gay stripper. But there are plenty of libertarians that are trying to take over government and force everyone into their idea of a free society. You complain that libertarians are trying to force their way of life upon you but would they not be subject to the higher touch government you advocate for? The cognitive dissonance is so thick I could mortar bricks together with it.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  I don't think most of them are that naive, honestly. It's pretty clear that restricting the power of the state doesn't in itself make individuals more free. It does give private power holders more latitude to express their power though. The people advocating for these things simply are, or believe they are, more powerful than most of the individuals around them. It only "falls apart" from the perspective of the less powerful. If you're an incredibly wealthy individual or a large corporation who often finds the state getting in the way of the things you want to do to people, it can work out just fine for you. It's been a while since I read it but the people in the article are mostly a mix of bought into it when they weren't actually in the private power holder group, or just misjudged the situation, misunderstood their ability to maintain some of the truly necessary fixtures of the state. Funny this time but doesn't mean future attempts will be as slapstick and self-contained as this one was.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    It takes a massive amount of ignorance to run one's mouth in this manner. Do you seriously not have first or second hand experience with what it's like to be in the cross-hairs of local government? It's f-ing terrible. And it's not Karen and her ilk that they go after. It's the guy who's running a side business out of his garage (aka the "mixed use" HN fawns over). It's the guy who's neighbors don't like the look of his project sailboat. It's the elderly couple that can't afford the 20k price tag to get off of septic and onto the sewer. Getting government out of the business of mediating these sorts of petty matters doesn't necessarily result in more freedom as they already had it but it results in a hell of a lot less stress for the people who were getting abused for exercising it. While dismantling the state at higher levels can cause some bad stuff (19th century robber barons selling people heorin over the counter, industry dumping hazmat, stuff like that) I find it very, very hard to argue against "more than the bare minimum to keep things running" at the local level. Edit: And I'm not a libertarian. I think there's a laundry list of things government should be involved in providing and facilitating that no true libertarian would agree with. I however, don't think the government should be meddling in the bulk of the "enforcing standards of personal behavior and commerce" stuff that a lot of people here want.

22 points by tr_user 4y ago

bediger4000 4y ago

Worth a read: fairly comical.

wrycoder 4y ago
Until the bear gets you. We have some in our back property.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

Some people seem to think that government is useless and should be abolished, always. But where ever the government powers are reduce we start to see societal decline. Crime goes up, the common infrastructure begins to fail, and generally, the place becomes a S hole to live in. Think about the worst places to live in and you'll see a government that's failing in someway. I'm not a rule lover but I know if there are no rules then it's an ugly place to be. This leads to the idea that taxes are an important part of society since that's how we finance a peaceful and productive society. We should not let all our money go to taxes but there's a point where we need to pay taxes to have a society we want to live in. People get the dumb idea that we can ask for countless benefits from government without having to pay for them. We need to balance our wants with what's possible. The idea of paying no taxes or paying taxes that are so low that the government can't function is a recipe for disaster. Libertarianism sounds like a nice solution to a free society in theory but in practice it's a non starter. The reality is that it falls in the same realm as fairytales and elves. It's nice to read about but it's not very practical as the primary societal philosophy of living.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
You can sneer all you want but the kind of people who want low taxes and low services don't share your values and likewise don't care what you think anymore than a gay stripper cares what the Pope thinks. They're happy to have potholes and bears. To them it's a cheap price to pay for not having government that's not capable of micromanaging even if it wanted to.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Thank god we live in a democracy and there are almost none of them! But there are enough to sneer at I guess! (Which I don’t do - I just chuckle … well other than Grover Norquist who deserves all the derision he gets)
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Funny because I shit you not the only gay stripper I know is a devout catholic. Celibate I think. A conflicted life to be sure but one that definitely does exist!
- WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
  The irony and the hypocrisy of the situation is that I have no gay strippers trying to convert me into a gay stripper. But there are plenty of libertarians that are trying to take over government and force everyone into their idea of a free society. Fine you want to live under a libertarian rule? More power to you. Just don't force the rest of us to be part of it. There's plenty of places where libertarians can create their dream world. The world is a big place.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    >The irony and the hypocrisy of the situation is that I have no gay strippers trying to convert me into a gay stripper. But there are plenty of libertarians that are trying to take over government and force everyone into their idea of a free society. You complain that libertarians are trying to force their way of life upon you but would they not be subject to the higher touch government you advocate for? The cognitive dissonance is so thick I could mortar bricks together with it.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
I don't think most of them are that naive, honestly. It's pretty clear that restricting the power of the state doesn't in itself make individuals more free. It does give private power holders more latitude to express their power though. The people advocating for these things simply are, or believe they are, more powerful than most of the individuals around them. It only "falls apart" from the perspective of the less powerful. If you're an incredibly wealthy individual or a large corporation who often finds the state getting in the way of the things you want to do to people, it can work out just fine for you. It's been a while since I read it but the people in the article are mostly a mix of bought into it when they weren't actually in the private power holder group, or just misjudged the situation, misunderstood their ability to maintain some of the truly necessary fixtures of the state. Funny this time but doesn't mean future attempts will be as slapstick and self-contained as this one was.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  It takes a massive amount of ignorance to run one's mouth in this manner. Do you seriously not have first or second hand experience with what it's like to be in the cross-hairs of local government? It's f-ing terrible. And it's not Karen and her ilk that they go after. It's the guy who's running a side business out of his garage (aka the "mixed use" HN fawns over). It's the guy who's neighbors don't like the look of his project sailboat. It's the elderly couple that can't afford the 20k price tag to get off of septic and onto the sewer. Getting government out of the business of mediating these sorts of petty matters doesn't necessarily result in more freedom as they already had it but it results in a hell of a lot less stress for the people who were getting abused for exercising it. While dismantling the state at higher levels can cause some bad stuff (19th century robber barons selling people heorin over the counter, industry dumping hazmat, stuff like that) I find it very, very hard to argue against "more than the bare minimum to keep things running" at the local level. Edit: And I'm not a libertarian. I think there's a laundry list of things government should be involved in providing and facilitating that no true libertarian would agree with. I however, don't think the government should be meddling in the bulk of the "enforcing standards of personal behavior and commerce" stuff that a lot of people here want.